Delay with the umik -1

[torsten1988]

Hi first of al I measured before with a interface and a xlr mic. And if I wanted to know the delay from subs to mid kick Hoorn etc.. I first calobrated the Soundcraft, went measure filled in delay with loopbaan en set the hz and stuff and then I get a grafiek and in the tap there was a delay which I worked with to put the soundsystem inline, now I bought a umik 1 To make life easier but for delay you can’t check the boxes only the using acoustical time reference but how to get delay from sub I meen that first bleep Is like a high freq that isn’t coming out of sub how to dicht! can u measure sub delay with aucouticsk or not because all the benefits are bit gone for me..

Thnx

 

[John Mulcahy]

To use the acoustic timing reference a speaker with a tweeter is used as the reference, it can be on a different channel to the measurement output.

 

[torsten1988]

To use the acoustic timing reference a speaker with a tweeter is used as the reference, it can be on a different channel to the measurement output.

So u can put a speaker on top of an sub and use acoustical time ref from te speaker above the sub to get delay from the subwoofer or? Sound a bit strange in my head because I should think the ref acoustical timing should be come from the speaker u want to know delay from? Or is me crazzzzy hah

 

[torsten1988]

I have soundsystem 5 way, so I put speaker extra on top to get the acoustical signaal from and then measure sub kick mid top and it should be in the right delay then?

 

[John Mulcahy]

Delays have to be relative to something. A timing reference from your sub wouldn't be useful, relative to itself your sub doesn't have any delay. You need to pick a driver as the reference, such as the top - it has to be capable of reproducing a 5 kHz - 20 kHz sweep (the timing reference signal). You can then measure other drivers or the sub and see their delay relative to that reference.

 

[torsten1988]

So if I put a Hoorn ontop that produce the 5…20000.. that’s t he reference so if I measure sub and it’s 28ms and then I measure mid and it’s 18, the delay has to be 10ms on the mid?

 

[John Mulcahy]

Yes, and 28 ms for the top. Note, however, that delay figures for subwoofers are not necessarily the most reliable, the alignment tool may give better results.

 

[torsten1988]

Yes, and 28 ms for the top. Note, however, that delay figures for subwoofers are not necessarily the most reliable, the alignment tool may give better results.

So u use top as acoustic reference I get it now but I measured before with a audio interface and it gives different delays they are like 8ms to 19ms different than acoustic delay, but u say the allotment tool. Works beter? Is there a easy faq for this alignment tool?

 

[ddude003]

You will find help in REW or google is your frenemy... https://www.roomeqwizard.com/help/help_en-GB/html/graph_allspl.html... Its in the second section down is under All SPL Controls...

 

[torsten1988]

Yes, and 28 ms for the top. Note, however, that delay figures for subwoofers are not necessarily the most reliable, the alignment tool may give better results.

Also how can something that’s like in 0.001ms measuring not be reliabel?

 

[John Mulcahy]

Precision is not the same as accuracy. Subwoofer responses are slow, which makes accurate detection of where they start and where they peak less reliable. The more important factor for a subwoofer is its phase match to the driver it is transitioning to through its crossover region. The alignment tool shows that, has tools to automate finding the delay that gives a good phase match and shows the resulting SPL sum.

 

[torsten1988]

Precision is not the same as accuracy. Subwoofer responses are slow, which makes accurate detection of where they start and where they peak less reliable. The more important factor for a subwoofer is its phase match to the driver it is transitioning to through its crossover region. The alignment tool shows that, has tools to automate finding the delay that gives a good phase match and shows the resulting SPL sum.

Thnx for all the reply’s I really want to get the best of my soundsystem which contains 9 paraflex c2e 2x15. 3 jbl 4530 and paraflex 3 way cabinets how is it best to measure like those para goes from 27till88 got the scoops from around 55-85 till 135-225 so just measure full 27till 88and 55 till 225? And then use alignment tool or is it beter just to measure the region they both cover like 55 till88? And than use alligment tool?

 

[John Mulcahy]

Measure at least an octave either side of the range each covers.

 

[torsten1988]

It’s quiete difficult I see now, but thanks for the help

 

[st0nehead_ss]

It’s quiete difficult I see now, but thanks for the help

let me know how you get on with this? i have 4 super scoopers, 4 es18bph kicks and 2x 2x12"+HF paraflex, and am also having trouble with the alignment. firstly used umik and acoustic timing delay going to a fullrange monitor speaker (assume this should be in line with the rest of the stack, not closer to the mic or anything??) then yesterday tried with loopback, had no luck, so will probably go the acoustic timing reference again and use the umik as i can get cleaner readings with that...

 

[John Mulcahy]

There's an impulse mode in the alignment tool now that may be easier to use than phase alignment.

 

[st0nehead_ss]

There's an impulse mode in the alignment tool now that may be easier to use than phase alignment.

john, yesterday we tried with the behringer measurement mic and the IR graph looked nothing like it should, it was a very dense graph of waves with a curve drawn over the top. we were outside in the blazing sun and got very frustrated trying to see and find the way to show it how it should be, and it may have been a calibration issue as had to borrow a focusrite interface, and the behringer mic was new.

 

[John Mulcahy]

If you attach an mdat file I can take a look.

 

[st0nehead_ss]

i'll drag it out of the laptop later and attach it here