DAC Advice Needed

[NBPK402]

Thats interesting because in the manual it appears that digital and video processing are shut off with “Pure Direct Playback“ mode and there are many digital functions listed as turned off, but not bass management. If bass management stays on then there’s an ADC conversion to the external DACs analog signal, then another DAC. While it may sound fine, it somewhat defeats the purpose as the processors DAC is still in play.

I recall my Yamahas pure direct mode was a pure analog path. Still, things always sounded better with bass management and EQ to me.

@NBPK402 I hope it works out for you. That Denafrip Pontus II DAC looks to be a sweet bit of kit.

I will use my MiniDSP DDRC88 for Dirac after the Marantz AVP. I read quite a few reviews on the Pontus II and I think it will be a nice improvement...for what it is costing, I sure hope it does.

 

[ddude003]

Thats interesting because in the manual it appears that digital and video processing are shut off with “Pure Direct Playback“ mode and there are many digital functions listed as turned off, but not bass management. If bass management stays on then there’s an ADC conversion to the external DACs analog signal, then another DAC. While it may sound fine, it somewhat defeats the purpose as the processors DAC is still in play.

I recall my Yamahas pure direct mode was a pure analog path. Still, things always sounded better with bass management and EQ to me.

@NBPK402 I hope it works out for you. That Denafrip Pontus II DAC looks to be a sweet bit of kit.

Without design docs or schematics it is difficult to tell how exactly the analogue in is routed to the pre out even with the bass management given that there are separate outputs for subs... I would hope that the analogue in has split paths, one going the pure direct out path and the other to separate bass management... But who knows...

 

[ddude003]

I will find out when I come back from my trip to the US around the end of the month, as I just ordered a Denafrip Pontus II DAC.

That looks like a very clean design and I have heard nothing but good things about this DAC... I hope it works out for you...

 

[NBPK402]

Without design docs or schematics it is difficult to tell how exactly the analogue in is routed to the pre out even with the bass management given that there are separate outputs for subs... I would hope that the analogue in has split paths, one going the pure direct out path and the other to separate bass management... But who knows...

I found out that if you us the direct mode it is analog to the preouts.

 

[NBPK402]

That looks like a very clean design and I have heard nothing but good things about this DAC... I hope it works out for you...

It is being delivered today to my parents in Texas...Ordered Thursday of last week, and shipped from China to Texas very QUICK!

 

[NBPK402]

I have been listening to the new DAC for a couple of weeks now and the sound is still changing (I did not believe that it would do this but it is). The tonality is between the ESS Marantz and the ESS Yamaha currently. The Pontus has a better soundstage depth and on familiar recordings it is actually revealing a separation of instruments that my previous AVPs did not do. I like what I am hearing so far and I am glad I took a chance and got the Pontus ladder DAC. It is built like a tank and weighs 26lbs and is smaller than my Zappiti Reference is. I wish that other manufacturers would build a AVP that is built like this (it would most likely weigh around 60+ lbs.).

 

[ddude003]

Very nice @NBPK402... Have you tried both NonOverSampling and OverSampling modes? I have read that the OverSampling is better... Also, have you tried any of the massive taps generators like Remastero's PGGB, HQPlayer or SoX with some trick mods? There are free demo versions to try... It sounds like your system is coming together nicely...

 

[JStewart]

The Pontus has a better soundstage depth and on familiar recordings it is actually revealing a separation of instruments that my previous AVPs did not do.

How do you have things connected up these days?
I‘ve always noticed that type of phenomenon when using a processor and deactivating all but the fronts or fronts and sub for a 2.1 setup. I think it has something to do with how the DSPs are allocating headroom for bass management, but really just a guess on my part. Of course with pure analog this is not in play.

 

[ddude003]

I think Archimago, Amir and many others have shown that not all AVRs, DACs, PreAmps, Amps and Speakers measure and/or sound the same... As with pure analogue rigs with their Cartridges, Tone Arms, TTs, Phono Stages, PreAmps, Amps and Speakers... Viva la Difference... Caveat Emptor...

 

[NBPK402]

How do you have things connected up these days?
I‘ve always noticed that type of phenomenon when using a processor and deactivating all but the fronts or fronts and sub for a 2.1 setup. I think it has something to do with how the DSPs are allocating headroom for bass management, but really just a guess on my part. Of course with pure analog this is not in play.

Roon NUC-Pontus via USB-Marantz AVP via XLRs...DSP set to Pure Direct-Xilica xp4080-Icepower amps- MEHs.

 

[NBPK402]

Last night I listened to the same songs I listen to every night...WOW, the DAC keeps getting better by the day! I never have believe in break-in except for speakers, but this DAC def keeps changing. Last night the music kept revealing more and more that I had not heard before (soundstage is opening up more, instruments that were muddy together are appearing deeper in the stage). The mids and highs are like veils are being removed, and the bass is also getting tighter and revealing more details. The bass tonality is also changing...going to take some time to get used to a more revealing bass that has this new tonality.

The OS/NOS light is in the off position and I def prefer this position...last night I switched from the light being on and the sound got much clearer and some of the above is from switching the OS/NOS button.

 

[ddude003]

Last night I listened to the same songs I listen to every night...WOW, the DAC keeps getting better by the day! I never have believe in break-in except for speakers, but this DAC def keeps changing. Last night the music kept revealing more and more that I had not heard before (soundstage is opening up more, instruments that were muddy together are appearing deeper in the stage). The mids and highs are like veils are being removed, and the bass is also getting tighter and revealing more details. The bass tonality is also changing...going to take some time to get used to a more revealing bass that has this new tonality.

The OS/NOS light is in the off position and I def prefer this position...last night I switched from the light being on and the sound got much clearer and some of the above is from switching the OS/NOS button.

Glad your enjoying your new DAC @NBPK402... In the manual Denafrips describes it as NOS/OS... So, if I am not mistaken, when the light is off your in the OS (OverSampling) mode... It makes sense to me that would sound better on a highly revealing system such as yours... And there are still some filters you can config to your liking, being Slow or Sharp Filters... Have fun and enjoy your Audio Nirvana...

 

[NBPK402]

Glad your enjoying your new DAC @NBPK402... In the manual Denafrips describes it as NOS/OS... So, if I am not mistaken, when the light is off your in the OS (OverSampling) mode... It makes sense to me that would sound better on a highly reveling system such as yours... And there are still some filters you can config to your liking, being Slow or Sharp Filters... Have fun and enjoy your Audio Nirvana...

Thanks, later this year I am thinking of either getting a DD or getting a audio streamer with i2s. It would be nice to find one that also was a Roon core...so I could consolidate and use is.

 

[ddude003]

Thanks, later this year I am thinking of either getting a DD or getting a audio streamer with i2s. It would be nice to find one that also was a Roon core...so I could consolidate and use is.

My feeling is that an audio streamer with a linear power supply, a high resolution clock, plus plenty of isolation would be better than a DDC... A least that is the direction I went... And now we are down to splitting hairs... What is in between your NUC and your DAC? Do you have a Roon endpoint in there? Or is the NUC the endpoint?

 

[NBPK402]

My feeling is that a audio streamer with a linear power supply, a high resolution clock, plus plenty of isolation would be better than a DDC... And now we are down to splitting hairs... What is in between your NUC and your DAC? Do you have a Roon endpoint in there? Or is the NUC the endpoint?

I am running a USB cable directly from my roon to my Pontus. I am using roon as a core and endpoint too.

 

[ddude003]

I would think your looking at the Denafrips DDCs... And I bet they would help... Not sure why they did not just build that tech into their DACs to begin with... And many manufactures of Streamer/Transports do build this same tech into their offerings... I guess its six of one or a half dozen of the other... There is always more than one way to skin a cat...
Have you seen this Topping HS01 - USB 2.0 Isolator & Ground Loop Eliminator?

 

[NBPK402]

I would think your looking at the Denafrips DDCs... And I bet they would help... Not sure why they did not just build that tech into their DACs to begin with... And many manufactures of Streamer/Transports do build this same tech into their offerings... I guess its six of one or a half dozen of the other... There is always more than one way to skin a cat...
Have you seen this Topping HS01 - USB 2.0 Isolator & Ground Loop Eliminator?

The DAC has the i2s input, but I do not have a i2s output on my NUC. I have a HDMI jack on the NUC, but I do not know if there is a way to use it as a i2s port...hence the dilemma on getting the DD or get a dedicated streamer.

 

[ddude003]

The DAC has the i2s input, but I do not have a i2s output on my NUC. I have a HDMI jack on the NUC, but I do not know if there is a way to use it as a i2s port...hence the dilemma on getting the DD or get a dedicated streamer.

Here is an interesting write up by Amir titled "Study: Is I²S interface better for DACs than S/PDIF or USB?" over at https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...face-better-for-dacs-than-s-pdif-or-usb.7105/

My own opinion is that a well implemented USB interface on both the Streamer/transport and DAC is as good or better than any of the other interface methods... And USB is usually capable of transmitting at more bandwidth... For instance...
USB: Native DSD512 support and PCM 44.1–768kHz, 16–32-bit, Stereo
vs...
OPTICAL, COAXIAL RCA, COAXIAL BNC & AES/EBU:
DSD64 (DoP64, DSD over PCM) and PCM 44.1kHz–192kHz, 16–24-bit

 

[NBPK402]

Here is an interesting write up by Amir titled "Study: Is I²S interface better for DACs than S/PDIF or USB?" over at https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...face-better-for-dacs-than-s-pdif-or-usb.7105/

My own opinion is that a well implemented USB interface on both the Streamer/transport and DAC is as good or better than any of the other interface methods... And USB is usually capable of transmitting at more bandwidth... For instance...
USB: Native DSD512 support and PCM 44.1–768kHz, 16–32-bit, Stereo
vs...
OPTICAL, COAXIAL RCA, COAXIAL BNC & AES/EBU:
DSD64 (DoP64, DSD over PCM) and PCM 44.1kHz–192kHz, 16–24-bit

Thanks interesting read.

Today I decided to reinstall Roon Rock on my Asus Mini un62 (a i5 unit I used to have Roon Rock on until I got a new i5 NUC. Disclamer: I last listened last night before doing this. When I got it installed i went into my Windows 10 Roon Core and saw that now it showed the Pontus (previously I was selecting system output on the Win10 Roon core)... I selected the Pontus and proceeded to do some more listening to the same songs.
Now everyday I listen to the Pontus with the same music to see if it is changing like everyone else says, and everyday I hear changes...some good and some not so good. Today EVERYTHING sounded better! The highs were even clearer, bass has tightened up and sounds more like it should which is much better than the Yamaha ESS or the Marantz ESS chips (both of which sounded different and easily noticed...the last few days the bass was sounding very strange. It was like someone took a knife and carved off the edge of the bass notes, if that makes sense). I was thinking it could be showing that I need to retune the MEHs since I have the new woofers in them (most likely a good idea...just enjoying the music too much now...maybe i will wait a few months until we get more MEHs completed and then tune all at once. . Now I do not know if the Rock was making all of the difference or if it was the Pontus too. I decided to search and I noticed that some people are saying the same thing as I noticed, and they claim that it is because Windows has so much overhead and the Linux Lite Rock does not have that issue.

So I have been listening to the Pontus for about 8 hours today and I am really loving it. I still wonder if I should be getting a DD and or getting a really good streamer.

Any ideas on whether or not a dedicated $1k+ streamer would be a easily noticed difference vs a NUC?

 

[ddude003]

Thanks interesting read.
<some comments removed for brevity>
So I have been listening to the Pontus for about 8 hours today and I am really loving it. I still wonder if I should be getting a DD and or getting a really good streamer.

Any ideas on whether or not a dedicated $1k+ streamer would be a easily noticed difference vs a NUC?

Your welcome... And that is a really good question... Unfortunately I don't have a really good answer... Most of the really good streamers, ones with linear power supplies, buffering, ultra high resolution clocking, up/down scaling and good at streaming services like Qobuz, etc are more in the ~$2k range and above... And the only way to know if you would easily notice a sonic difference would depend on the rest of your kit and of course your ears... So it gets down to a buy and try...

I do know that Roon suggests both a Roon Core and a Roon ready End Point aka streamer/transport for the best sonics out of a DAC... And in my case, adding a decent streamer/transport, made a big difference in the sonic quality of my kit and at the same time added a lot of convenience and additional usability... I was in market for a streamer/transport anyway... And being Roon ready was a bonus... Now I stream music from all my computers and cell phones and also run Roon, Audirvana or Internet Radio from anywhere... All Hi Rez...

 

[NBPK402]

Your welcome... And that is a really good question... Unfortunately I don't have a really good answer... Most of the really good streamers, ones with linear power supplies, buffering, ultra high resolution clocking, up/down scaling and good at streaming services like Qobuz, etc are more in the ~$2k range and above... And the only way to know if you would easily notice a sonic difference would depend on the rest of your kit and of course your ears... So it gets down to a buy and try...

I do know that Roon suggests both a Roon Core and a Roon ready End Point aka streamer/transport for the best sonics out of a DAC... And in my case, adding a decent streamer/transport, made a big difference in the sonic quality of my kit and at the same time added a lot of convenience and additional usability... I was in market for a streamer/transport anyway... And being Roon ready was a bonus... Now I stream music from all my computers and cell phones and also run Roon, Audirvana or Internet Radio from anywhere... All Hi Rez...

I have been looking at the Lumin U1 mini and U2 mini.

 

[ddude003]

I have been looking at the Lumin U1 mini and U2 mini.

I have had my Lumin U1 mini for almost 3 years now without any issues... Support is excellent from Peter on both Roon.com and audiophilestyle.com user forums... As a user, I highly recommend Lumin products...

 

[NBPK402]

I have had my Lumin U1 mini for almost 3 years now without any issues... Support is excellent from Peter on both Roon.com and audiophilestyle.com user forums... As a user, I highly recommend Lumin products...

I just purchased a used Lumin U1 mini.

 

[ddude003]

I just purchased a used Lumin U1 mini.

Nice... It will be interesting to see what you think of it in your kit..

 

[NBPK402]

Nice... It will be interesting to see what you think of it in your kit..

Hopefully I will have it next week, sometime. It will be nice to eliminate one of my NUCS.