Choosing sampling rate with Blu Ray Audio discs

[BruceB]

I have a 2-channel audio system, two older Sony Blu Ray players, and am a newbie when it comes to Blu Ray Audio. I recently bought my first Blu Ray audio disc, and beside Dolby Atmos etc it has a separate 2-channel 24 bit/ 192kHz audio version on it. I have the PCM output of the Blu Ray players connected to a DAC which is spec'd as 32-bit 192kHz. When I play the disc, whether it is the toslink or the coaxial output of the player, I get 48kHz sampling rate out according to my DAC. I realize that for audio playback purposes 48kHz sampling as probably all I need, but it leads me to ask these two questions: 1) Which piece of gear is downsampling the data stream to 48kHz and why? 2) How do I get a higher rate (96kHz or 192kHz) from player to DAC, since the disc has it and the DAC supposedly can handle it?

 

[JStewart]

Welcome to the forum!
It’s probably the Sony blueray, but a check of the owners manual should provide a firm answer and also if a higher sample rate is possible without using HDMI.

 

[ddude003]

It would be helpful if you would state what model number your Sony Blu Ray player is... On my Sony UBP-X700 4k HDR I have to select the sampling rate when outputting to the DIGITAL OUT (COAXIAL)... I think 48kHz is the default...

 

[BruceB]

It would be helpful if you would state what model number your Sony Blu Ray player is... On my Sony UBP-X700 4k HDR I have to select the sampling rate when outputting to the DIGITAL OUT (COAXIAL)... I think 48kHz is the default...

The one I am currently using is very old -- A Sony BPD-S360. It has a rather long setup menu, but today I found this statement in its operator's manual "...the signals will be set to 48kHz / 16 bit if the source is copy protected." Possibly all Blu Ray discs are copy protected? I am planning to buy a new Blu Ray player, but I really see no point in it if the new one also will do no better than 48kHz.

 

[ddude003]

Digital Rights Management (DRM) might be an issue with these hardware players... Look into software "Ripping" solutions to digitally extract higher resolutions from your BluRays if you are so inclined...

 

[Todd Anderson]

Oh.... that's so frustrating. There's no getting around that gateway set by the Sony player.

@Bob Rapoport, you're into Blu-ray audio...is this common across all BD players? I just did a cursory search, and as far as I can tell, players can typically process higher sampling rates with their internal DACs, but are gated when dumping digital audio to an external DAC.

I agree with @ddude003, it might be time to start thinking about ripping to extract the full bandwidth. Tho, I wonder: will you be able to hear a difference? I guess that's the biggest question you need to answer. Is time/investment worth the end result?

 

[BruceB]

Oh.... that's so frustrating. There's no getting around that gateway set by the Sony player.

@Bob Rapoport, you're into Blu-ray audio...is this common across all BD players? I just did a cursory search, and as far as I can tell, players can typically process higher sampling rates with their internal DACs, but are gated when dumping digital audio to an external DAC.

I agree with @ddude003, it might be time to start thinking about ripping to extract the full bandwidth. Tho, I wonder: will you be able to hear a difference? I guess that's the biggest question you need to answer. Is time/investment worth the end result?

Part of my motivation here is that I'm inclined to purchase a new Blu Ray player for various reasons but if my dts-HD Master Audio tracks on Blu Ray Audio discs won't play back at full sampling rate then I'm not paying $800 or $1200 for a Blu Ray player. I'm primarily a 2-channel audio listener -- a $90 2k Blu Ray player with coaxial or toslink digital output works just fine for the movies I watch (most of which are on DVD anyway). At this point I am just dabbling in dts-HD MA and don't know how much I want to invest in it. So far it seems the industry has done a poor job of making it a convenient transition from CD for the old school audiophile. As for the biggest question, I already have 48k Hz capability, and that is 90% of the way there IMO so there is validity in asking if the end result is worth it. Right now I am able to play back 24-bit/192k Hz FLAC files on a USB stick if I want to go that route. It's my hobby and I am retired so I have plenty of time. The cost to add dts-HD MA to what I already have is not very high if I make the correct purchase and get to where I want to be the first time around.

 

[AJ Soundfield]

I get 48kHz sampling rate out according to my DAC. I realize that for audio playback purposes 48kHz sampling as probably all I need

Not probably, unless you imagine being able to hear 24k and above. Higher sampling rates are audiophile nonsense, most are lucky if they can hear 14k!

 

[Todd Anderson]

Not probably, unless you imagine being able to hear 24k and above. Higher sampling rates are audiophile nonsense, most are lucky if they can hear 14k!

I subscribe to this... tho, I'm also the first to admit that I'm game for knowing my equipment is going full throttle.

I know... I know... but...

 

[AJ Soundfield]

Todd, of all ironies, IF I miraculously do a PSR demo, the playback will be via...Blu-ray audio 48k .
5ch of course

 

[Sonnie Parker]

I used to be a skeptic like AJ, but then I got my new Signia hearing aids. Now that I’ve basically got a DSP-corrected NASA uplink in my ear canals, 48k sounds like a transistor radio in a dumpster. If it isn't 96k, my hearing aids actually send an automated apology letter to the manufacturer. Throw the rest in the garbage... my ears have finally outpaced the hardware.

AJ... you will be happy to hear ... wait... read... that I can now hear the air better. My hearing aids may have a wider frequency response than your speakers. What da ya think about that!!!

 

[AJ Soundfield]

What da ya think about that!!!

The AES DBT scientific explanation? With age comes senility.

 

[Sonnie Parker]

lol... I think of it more like analog warmth.

 

[AJ Soundfield]

Btw, aren't you retired now? No sunny FL expo this year?

 

[ddude003]

Even if most humans can not hear above 18kHz or beyond does not mean that those higher frequencies do not affect the lower frequencies in the room...

 

[AJ Soundfield]

That would make say a 22.05kHz low pass filter vs unfiltered audible then. Please present your evidence. Any reference to Bob Stuart results in immediate striking of the gong.

 

[Sonnie Parker]

Btw, aren't you retired now? No sunny FL expo this year?

Yes... I was making a nice dent in the lazy chair for well over a year. Then... well... then came The Gun Shop USA. Long story that maybe I can share with you later.

 

[Sonnie Parker]

Be careful, guys. If we keep talking about frequencies we can’t hear affecting frequencies we can hear, AJ is going to start quoting the Second Law of Thermodynamics, and we’ll all be grounded. I’ll just stick to my Signias... they have a Placebo Mode that makes everything sound like 192k anyway.

 

[ddude003]

Gong... You mentioned him AJ... And I suppose the speakers you make only go up to 14kHz because you believe no one can hear above that?

I believe this paper has quite a bit of information about life above 20kHz... https://www.tnt-audio.com/casse/life_above_20khz.pdf

I think you mean Maxwell's Equasions @Sonnie Parker

 

[BruceB]

The range of human hearing aside, part of the reason I posted this (I'm the OP) is because I don't understand why Sony would automatically downsample the 192k HZ to 48 kHz. It's as though I'm not getting all I paid for when I bought the Blu Ray Audio disk, right? I was concerned that perhaps SPDIF or TOSLINK can't theoretically go that fast, but after more research I don't think that's the reason. I emailed Tascam about their MPK4 Blu Ray Player and they said that it can be configured to pass the sampling rate straight through. That's how it should be, shouldn't it?

 

[ddude003]

Ok, read page 45 of the operating instructions 41355791M.pdf... Some mumbo jumbo about “48kHz/96kHz PCM” is not effective when “Audio Output Priority” is set to “HDMI” or “Stereo Analog.” Also something about "Outputs audio signals of 96 kHz sampling as 96 kHz/ 24 bit. However, the signals will be output as 48 kHz/16 bit if the source is copy-protected"... Read DRM...

There also appears that there are firmware updates... Don't know if that would change your issues though...

 

[BruceB]

Ok, read page 45 of the operating instructions 41355791M.pdf... Some mumbo jumbo about “48kHz/96kHz PCM” is not effective when “Audio Output Priority” is set to “HDMI” or “Stereo Analog.” Also something about "Outputs audio signals of 96 kHz sampling as 96 kHz/ 24 bit. However, the signals will be output as 48 kHz/16 bit if the source is copy-protected"... Read DRM...

There also appears that there are firmware updates... Don't know if that would change your issues though...

I have the "Audio Output Priority" set to "Coaxial/Optical" and as I interpret the information in the manual that should allow the data to go to those two ports without downsampling. I also have "48kHz/96kHz PCM" set to "96 kHz/24-bit" which according to the explanation should allow a signal of 96 kHz to go through without downsampling. No mention of 192 kHz and what happens in that case. But, as you point out, the real bugaboo is the next sentence which states "signals will be output as 48kHz/16-bit if the source is copyprotected". I did mention this earlier in this thread. You may recall that when videos first started coming out on DVD there was an industry-wide panic because of concerns that people would make their own copies of the movies rather than buy the legitimate DVD, so there were rather strict copy protections invented to circumvent that. But that was then, and that was DVD. I have no idea if the much more recent Blu Ray Audio discs have some sort of copy protection on them or not. At this point I think I am going to buy a new Blu Ray player (while I still can) and gamble that it will output the full resolution of the audio disk.If it will, then I will no longer care why my Sony is downsampling. I wish Oppo were still making players, but for me it looks like Panasonic or Tascam.

 

[ddude003]

There is also a chart on page 63 which seems to suggest that the Coax/Optical can only do DTS and Dolby Digital Setup Pattern C with a Footnote 6 needing a Down Mix PCM setting... Guessing this would be at a lower sample and bitrate... Done going down this rabbit hole...

Copy Protected is now considered Digital Rights Management (DRM)...

I am pretty sure that all commercial consumer digital media has some sort of DRM... Although, some computer application software can sidestep various methods of DRM... A computer blue ray disk reader may be cheaper than a stand alone solution...

Good luck with whatever way you go...