Budget processor for dolby surround with existing stereo system

[interz]

Hi, looking for some advice and recommendations on how to add a surround processor to my existing hifi system just for use on films etc. Not looking for anything over 5.0 (I don't even need a sub - or do I?) TV has optical out and claims to process broadcast audio as Dolby / DTS, and passes Bluray signal via hdmi input. My intention is to add a soundbar as centre / dialog speaker and a couple of rear speakers for the surround. I'm not interested in big AV receivers I just need a surround processor that could have amps for centre and rear (no need for front LR). I have been looking at old Yamaha sound field processors are these any good?

 

[Todd Anderson]

Hi @interz,

Sounds like you're looking to install a rather basic system to get some better sound for TV and movies? Is that about right?

There are plenty of soundbar and soundbar with wireless surround channel options on the market. Some even have a wireless subwoofers. Here's a link to one that we previously reviewed: https://www.avnirvana.com/threads/e...isa-wireless-speaker-system-full-review.7610/

The beauty of these systems is that they don't require the purchase of any sort of AV processor.

There are some soundbars (typically higher-end models) that require external amplification. You can go that route, but the complexity of installing... not to mention cost factors... are going to go way up.

 

[Wayne A. Pflughaupt]

You said you wanted 5.0 but then said you were only interested in the center and rears, so I’m a bit confused.

An AVR is a “processor with amplifiers.” They are not separate equipment categories, and no manufacturer offers a model with only three amplifier channels. Can’t comment on the vintage Yamahas without a model number to research.

The only soundbar you’d be able to use with an AVR is a passive one. The self-powered soundbars are indeed their own category and don’t work with AVRs.

Regards,
Wayne A. Pflughaupt

 

[Todd Anderson]

I assume he’s lumping three channels into the sound bar

 

[interz]

ah looks like I haven't made myself clear here. LR channels will be the existing stereo system (big JBLs with own pre/power amp). The 5.0 is the complete system including these. So I was looking to add a centre speaker (and the soundbars being long and narrow will fit on my mantelpiece whereas bigger speakers will not).

The idea of something like the Yamaha sound field processors is that they deal with the Dolby processing and have either amplification for the centre & rear speakers, or phono outs for powered speakers (like the soundbar). I'm more confused with all the differing surround options, for a system like this (being 5.0) what is the most up to date I can work with and then what processors might fit the bill?

 

[Todd Anderson]

The idea of integrating a soundbar isn't going to work, because a soundbar is designed to be an LCR array (at the minium) and you already have L/R channels. The soundbar (if powered) will have internally processing that tries to route sound across its array to mimic an LCR array. Also, it's not a good idea to mix and match tweeters across your front three channels. You want matching tweeters across all three.

If you don't care about matching tweeters, your next best option would be some sort of onwall speaker.

Yamaha makes some great receivers, but my gut is telling me you'll be much happier using your current speakers as a 2-channel setup, and then add something like a soundbar and two rear channels as a completely separate system for some added TV/Movie audio

 

[Wayne A. Pflughaupt]

Those early Yamaha processors are the only way I know of to add surround sound to a stereo system. You should obtain a manual before purchasing one and study it carefully to see if it will do what you want, and will connect to your system.

However, in the end you will at best end up with Dolby Pro Logic surround sound processing. DPL was an analog processing scheme that derived surround sound from a two-channel signal. Signals appearing in both channels (such as voices) would be sent to the center channel. The rear channels were a mono signal, delayed ~10 ms and split to two speakers, derived from out of phase signals originating in the original stereo mix. It was really quite effective in achieving surround sound. However, sound designers had to specifically mix a soundtrack to make it work, especially generating the signal for the rear channels. If your viewing consists of video tapes played on a VCR, you will be in business.

However, the world has moved on to Dolby Digital, a much more advanced digital surround-sound format that allows fully independent signals for all channels. This enables things like panning back and forth between the rear two channels, panning diagonally from the right front to left rear channel, etc.

The problem with your proposed system is that movies and other video programming are now mixed for Dolby Digital, not Pro Logic. Playing a DD soundtrack on a DPL system, you will get “action” in the rear speakers, but it is something along the lines of “it is what it is,” because there is no deliberate sound mixing for DPL anymore. Things like a front-to-rear channel pan in DD may well not even “show up” if played on a DPL system. This is what you will have with a stereo system with add-on processor such as the vintage Yamahas.

Regards,
Wayne

 

[interz]

Thanks for that explanation Wayne, this is what I thought was going on. I've been out of this game for a long time but actually used to install Pro Logic systems way back in the 80s (with Hifi VHS) so I know how that works, but I wondered just how far things had changed, and often when I read up about all the different formats (THX anyone?) I just can't work out what I should be aiming for! I have no intention of losing my main stereo system (mostly set up for vinyl and cd playback, but has FM and streaming too) but now my children are of that age where spaceships flying around the room could be worthwhile again ;o) I know I'm supposed to have the same speakers, or at least matching types from same manufacturer, for proper surround to work well (tweeters n all) and then there's this whole business about the sub channel...but just looking for a cheap way into this (the $ get spent on the main system!).

 

[ddude003]

You could get a cheap AVR that has 5.1 or 7.1 and run your front L&R from a PreOut or Zone 2 to your Preamp for L&R... Then run the Center and Surround Backs from the other Standard Speaker Outputs on the AVR... The only issue is to volume match your 2 channel system and your surround system when running as a Home Theater... This is essentially what I do and I have some secret sauce to match the 2 channel system and the surround components... My 2 channel preamp has a HT bypass although I never use it that way...

 

[interz]

Hi Dude! Yes this is what I was thinking (although completely don't want any of these massive AVR with more sockets than stars!). I actually have a set volume on my preamp and then use the TV volume to set levels, as the processor would be receiving the signal from the TV optical out I hope I can keep the surround / LR balance in check. So it appears I'm looking for a processor only (I can use powered speakers for dialog and rears) or small AV amp that has 5.1 (but what formats?) with pre outs for LR at least. Any ideas?

 

[ddude003]

If you intend to only use active (powered with internal amp) speakers for center, surrounds and sub, an AV pre/pro would do it... Not knowing what your budget is or other details about your feature requirements and manufacturer prefs are leaves me at a disadvantage...