Assistance with Martin Logan 13A's Expressions

[Omuracada]

This is my first ELS and so far absolutely loving them. Break in period is up and I want to fine tune a few things. Its good to state that they are primarily for movies (95%) I have a ML Focus for the center and a SVS 3000 (which is hooked up as LFE into the center Sub option on the XMC2) to go with them. I use a XMC2 with a XPA-7 Gen 3 and about to order the XPA-DR3 to put the LCR on it and surrounds stick with the XPA-7. With all that said any suggestion on if I set my ML 13A's to a large speaker or keep them at small. I currently have all of them as Small including the Center. If we keep them small and suggestion on what I should set the crossover at? Once I get that all se and in a few more weeks I will make my attempt to then run Dirac.

Thanks in Advance!

 

[Sonnie Parker]

Have you measured the response full range to see how the 13A's roll off in your room? I would use that as a guide to set the xover.

 

[Omuracada]

still trying to learn how to do that correctly. Is that what we would want to use the ARC or REW for, or is there another way for me to measure that,

 

[ddude003]

Your ML 13A's have dual 10-inch PoweredForce Forward™ woofers powered by dual 300-watt Class-D amplifiers, and controlled by a 24-Bit Vojtko™ DSP Engine and ARC™ (Anthem Room Correction) in each speaker capable of 24Hz to 23kHz ±3dB frequency response... I would definitely call them a large speaker... ... The ML Focus Center goes from 50Hz to 23kHz ±3dB... I would say that one is a toss up... Would not hurt to try it as a large or small...

 

[Omuracada]

Thanks! Yea I always get confused on if and when it makes sense to set to large. I will try that out now.

 

[ddude003]

The issue is whether or not the speaker(s) in question are truly full range and can handle low frequencies well... Your 13A's are basically electrostatic panels for highs and mids matched to full on (sub)woofers which are capable of handling plenty of lows... Your center speaker is another thing... I might set that as small and try the "standard" 80Hz... This will send any frequencies below 80Hz to your sub channel... You might try a crossover from 80Hz on down to about 65Hz here...

REW is a free software tool that, along with a mic like UMIK-1 or UMIK-2 etc, will allow you to "see" what is going on with your speakers in your room... There are plenty of charts, examples and helpful folks to learn from found here on AVNirvana...

 

[Omuracada]

The issue is whether or not the speaker(s) in question are truly full range and can handle low frequencies well... Your 13A's are basically electrostatic panels for highs and mids matched to full on (sub)woofers which are capable of handling plenty of lows... Your center speaker is another thing... I might set that as small and try the "standard" 80Hz... This will send any frequencies below 80Hz to your sub channel... You might try a crossover from 80Hz on down to about 65Hz here...

This is what I just tried and I set Center and Backs to 80Hz. Will play with this set up and see what my thoughts are! Thanks again for the assistance and education.

 

[Sonnie Parker]

still trying to learn how to do that correctly. Is that what we would want to use the ARC or REW for, or is there another way for me to measure that,

The placement of your 13A's will tell you how much your room is influencing your bass, which is where REW will come in. Did you get the PBK (ARC kit) so you could use ARC?

If the response down low requires too much boost, you can then determine where to let the 3000 sub take over. Either way I'd run the 13A's as "small" and let them handle everything below about 30-35Hz, that is if the 13A's have good extension down that low.

You may experiment between 30-35Hz all the way up to about 80Hz and see what you prefer also. The 3000 sub might give you more impact... but it is hard to say, as you do have four 10" drivers in the 13A's that could have good impact if your room doesn't soak it up due to placement.

 

[Omuracada]

Ok makes sense as my ARC bundle for ML comes this week. I will try those crossover setting however another question I have is after I run ARC for the expressions does it then make any sense to run DIRAC for the rest of theater and include the expressions? Or is it one or the other?

 

[Sonnie Parker]

I don't run ARC on my 15A's... I let Dirac handle it all.

What you do really depends on a lot of different factors, type of room, type of treatments, placement of speakers, listening position, and measurements. All of this comes into consideration when determining how to us the EQ systems you have available. The 13A's are more direct, but if you have them closer to the walls you may get more reflections influencing more of the sound, depending on your acoustical treatments in the room. All of these factors also determine whether you EQ up to about 500Hz or do full EQ with Dirac. You'll likely need EQ at least up to 500Hz on all of your speakers, and Dirac does a fabulous job blending your sub with your speakers.

ARC would typically be used when you are two-channel and don't have a sub... however, I've know guys to run ARC, then run Dirac on top of it with no complaints, despite it being a questionable practice.