Anyone with open-layout room experience setting up 4 subs?

[RussNC]

I am placing 4 subs in a family room and have a general question regarding sub placement in an open layout house. I've used REW to take single sub responses in 7 locations and multiple orientations.
The total open area is around 14,000 cu.ft. over four different rooms and windows along one side of the house. The room for movies (about a quarter of the open space and roughly 22'x14' with ceiling sloping from 10-14') is the farthest possible shape from anything used in the Harmon study - multi-shaped, open to several rooms, vaulted ceiling and open areas.
My general question is this:
Is it best to start with the 4 subs in locations with the best single responses, then align and EQ or place the subs along 4 different walls in order to get the best results? The best 4 responses are only on 3 walls.
My guess is the answer is: test using best locations, then test using subs along all four directions from main listening position.

 

[jtalden]

If you have trouble finding a favorable setup manually, you may want to try MSO.

 

[Sonnie]

I would test with all four subs combined, as the combined response will be used when in use. The problem with doing it manually is that for the response to be accurate, the subs need to be time-aligned with the main listening position. You can delay one sub and it will change the combined response. You can use REW to time align, but trying different locations and time-aligning for each can be time-consuming. Ask me how I know... I have eight subs. This is where something like Dirac Live Bass Control comes in handy. Place the subs where they get the best response individually and let DLBC do the rest.

 

[RussNC]

I would test with all four subs combined, as the combined response will be used when in use. The problem with doing it manually is that for the response to be accurate, the subs need to be time-aligned with the main listening position. You can delay one sub and it will change the combined response. You can use REW to time align, but trying different locations and time-aligning for each can be time-consuming. Ask me how I know... I have eight subs. This is where something like Dirac Live Bass Control comes in handy. Place the subs where they get the best response individually and let DLBC do the rest.

8 subs? Wow.
Sorry, I need to be more clear in asking questions. This is an open space with vaulted ceiling, so I understand rectangular room and Harmon studies logic goes out the window.
I just added two more subs (now have 4 Klipsch 1600SW) and was wondering whether to place along 4 different directions (in this case NSEW) or in the 4 spots with the strongest results from REW.
Spots 1 and 2 were the weakest results, so I did not know if placing subs in spots 4,5,6 and 7 would be a better placement since they yielded the strongest individual results. I've attached the REW results and a diagram showing floor plan with ceiling heights. I'm using miniDSP 2x4 HD and REW. This seems like something to keep experimenting with - I guess that is why it is called a hobby...
My first shot at this was to place the 4 subs at spots 1,4,6 and 7. I still ended up with a dip at roughly 35Hz after time align and before EQ.

From your response, it looks like I could use the top 4 locations and work from there - that would be 4,5,6 and 7. Guess I'll try that someday I have extra time (and Advil) to move them around. Thanks for the reply.

 

[Sonnie]

Yeah... experimentation will be the only way to figure it out. No software or magic will be able to replicate your situation. You can also experiment with adjusting the delay about 5ms on one sub to help eliminate the 35Hz dip. Sometimes changing the alignment slightly can help with dips, and you wouldn't notice it sound-wise, or at least no one at one of our evaluations noticed it when Mark Seaton delayed one of my subs 5ms to get rid of a 30Hz dip I had in my room several years ago (when I had 8x eighteens).

You will likely get better overall low-end response the closer you have them all to a side wall (1, 2, 5, 6, 7).

 

[ddude003]

I would be tempted to move the screen and main L&R speakers to that left wall between speaker L and position #1... Move your main listening position to face that wall... Stick 2 subs a bit wide of that position at the next walls... Maybe subs at speaker L and position #1ish... The other subs farther behind the main listening position nearer walls at positions 2 and 5... Yes, a little unorthodox and so is your room...

 

[RussNC]

I would be tempted to move the screen and main L&R speakers to that left wall between speaker L and position #1... Move your main listening position to face that wall... Stick 2 subs a bit wide of that position at the next walls... Maybe subs at speaker L and position #1ish... The other subs farther behind the main listening position nearer walls at positions 2 and 5... Yes, a little unorthodox and so is your room...

I omitted some critical details on the floorplan. Moving the screen is a no-go. This is an multi-angled and open, somewhat common to Florida (even though I'm further north). The 45 degree wall just above the first location for a sub is a fireplace and everything from sub 1 to the bottom of the page is either 7' of window or glass doors. It makes for a great view of the backyard, but about .8 sec RDT. I've got some expert advice on wall and ceiling treatment to bring RDT down below .4, but sub placement looks like an experiment in process for a few days to come.

 

[MusicManLen]

While my open areas are different then yours my main theater room is very similar to yours including the barrel ceiling.
My theater room has openings on (2) side walls leading to a front hallway & front door and the other opening leading to a kitchen and rear glass sliding door.
I am running (4) subs with my processor but my setup has (2) SVS SB16 subs placed at each rear side wall past the side openings and feeding my (2) front speakers with built in subs the LFE output as my front subs. I ran Audyssey XT32 with their optional app which provides additional setting options that are not available with the built in Audyssey XT32 on my processor. After running Audyssey which level balanced all (4) subs and making my adjustments using the optional app, I then went into my processor and did some manual adjustments such as raising the sub's volume level by equal amounts on each sub and added 4 feet to the distance setting of each sub. Before making these manual changes I listened to movies and found my bass was a lot softer than I like. After making these manual adjustments I then listened to the same movies and found my bass to be smooth and powerful and balanced in my theater room. Hope this helps.

 

[ddude003]

I omitted some critical details on the floorplan. Moving the screen is a no-go. This is an multi-angled and open, somewhat common to Florida (even though I'm further north). The 45 degree wall just above the first location for a sub is a fireplace and everything from sub 1 to the bottom of the page is either 7' of window or glass doors. It makes for a great view of the backyard, but about .8 sec RDT. I've got some expert advice on wall and ceiling treatment to bring RDT down below .4, but sub placement looks like an experiment in process for a few days to come.

No worries @RussNC there are usually pieces of the puzzle that are an unknown... Speaking of which have you looked at any of the studies regarding multiple subs? For instance https://www.harman.com/documents/multsubs_0.pdf which scratches the surface... And @jtalden's suggestion of MSO is a good one... So many methods, so little time...