Amps question

[GFOviedo]

I've owned and used several amps. Outlaw, Emotiva, Crown, QSC, Adcom, Rotel and Carver. They were all excellent amps, but I never really noticed that the sound from the speakers was any better than the other.

The pro amps' fans were somewhat loud when they turned on. Furthermore, the Crown and QSC amps would clip at high volume, which none of the other amps did.

 

[AudiocRaver]

It would seem like the autoformers mentioned could lead to a difference in perceived system "sound." It is an added variable. The output impedance of an amplifier can affect the way it interacts with a speaker, and that output impedance is exactly what is different between a McIntosh and most other amps, or "A BIG" difference.

The autoformer makes full rated power available to any speaker connected, which is a good thing. But it lowers the damping factor, which can lead to interaction between the amp and speaker at some frequencies (for some speakers,) and this can cause a very audible difference. Not NECESSARILY a bad thing, and not NECESSARILY a good thing. Just a difference.

 

[ddude003]

It would seem like the autoformers mentioned could lead to a difference in perceived system "sound." It is an added variable. The output impedance of an amplifier can affect the way it interacts with a speaker, and that output impedance is exactly what is different between a McIntosh and most other amps, or "A BIG" difference.

The autoformer makes full rated power available to any speaker connected, which is a good thing. But it lowers the damping factor, which can lead to interaction between the amp and speaker at some frequencies (for some speakers,) and this can cause a very audible difference. Not NECESSARILY a bad thing, and not NECESSARILY a good thing. Just a difference.

We have a winner!!!

And there is a nice white paper floating around the ether by Sidney Corderman, VP of Research and Development, McIntosh Laboratory Inc. titled "Output Transformers in Transistor Power Amplifiers" that describes, in some detail, what these unique to McIntosh devices do...

The ghosts of Maxwell, Tesla and Faraday are lurking in these amps... 8^)

Cordially...

 

[leecreek]

I picked up a Crown 1502 last Feb. B- Stock. Totally happy with it.

 

[Jack]

Right up my alley...kind of. I am a firm believer that amps can and oft times do sound different, but I also tend to believe that if there is a night and day difference something is askew. I have had long experiences with Mac amps and they are great but again, not night and day over the other amps you mention. Maybe with the exception of the newer Rotel pieces as I believe that they are class "D" now. That is not a bad thing just different.

 

[Jphillips1963]

I'll be revisiting the Mac amp again this week and will also check into the parasound again as well. I'll have them demo thru the same speakers and also a different set as well. So we'll see if there was something askew or if I actually did hear a great difference between the others.

 

[Mark C Flick]

I dunno, I'd have to say my Acurus amps sound far better than any of your amps. How do I know? Well, because they are mine and I'm biased But, serioiusly, in my experience they do sound a little better because they have to power to control my somewhat in-efficient speakers. So when I turn up the volume the bass is somewhat noticeably better than with my Denon reciever. Other than that I have not noticed any difference in sound between the various amps and receivers I have owned.

 

[Jphillips1963]

Well I went and demoed the macintosh amps again today along with Mark Levinson and a couple other name brands. I walked away with purchasing the MC302and a MC303. Also while there I had a chance to listen to several high end speakers such as the B&W 800. 802 and 803 series. Then I listened to the Martin Logan electrostatic speakers, 11,13 and 15 series. It's hard to proper terms to these speakers. The B&W seems to be very tranquil and warm, where the Martin Logans seemed to had more dynamic to them. All were fantastic in their own ways. I'll be back to listen to the new 700 series from B&W in a few weeks along with picking up my new amps.

The Mark Levinson setup I demoed was outstanding but just not practical in my view.

Thank you all for your input.

 

[Todd Anderson]

Nice! Congratulations on the purchase! Two super nice pieces of gear. Based on your initial impressions, I think you made the right choice. We need you to fire-up a McIntosh Amp Owners thread and get some pics and listening impressions in there.

 

[Jphillips1963]

Nice! Congratulations on the purchase! Two super nice pieces of gear. Based on your initial impressions, I think you made the right choice. We need you to fire-up a McIntosh Amp Owners thread and get some pics and listening impressions in there.

Thanks Todd,

I spent well more than I ever intended and it’s just started. The demo went well today and I was impressed with what I had heard thru several speakers. Some will ask why I chose 2 amps over just getting a single 5 or 7 channel amp. It came down to what I was hearing. I believe it’s all in their Autoformer they use over the DPM ( I believe that’s the proper acronym) I did listen to the MC 205 but it just wasn’t the same as the MC302 and 303.
Once I get everything setup and dialed in I’ll get pics up and add some demo audio as well.

 

[Todd Anderson]

You've definitely cracked the door to the high-end world. No turning back now!

I'm glad to hear your new demo confirmed your original impressions. You have to make decisions based on your own perceptions, right? After all, this is the gear you're choosing to live with. Look forward to seeing some pics!

 

[ddude003]

Congratulations!!!
MC302 + MC303 Very sweet...

Hurling 1500 to 2000 watts (W/T/F) of electrons thru aprox 200lbs of copper (LOL read Autoformers) into the blue charged atmosphere of your listening space will be epic...

Cordially...

PS - McIntosh + Martin Logan ESLs = Synergy...
PPSS - I see a tubed pre in your future...

 

[Sonnie]

Wow! Nice... VERY nice! You are going to have one awesome system that is for sure. I'd definitely listen closely to the 15A's since you have the amps to drive them. My 13A's were marvelous to say the least. No doubt you got it going on. You know we want to see pics when you get it all setup.

 

[GFOviedo]

Congrats!

 

[Jphillips1963]

Wow! Nice... VERY nice! You are going to have one awesome system that is for sure. I'd definitely listen closely to the 15A's since you have the amps to drive them. My 13A's were marvelous to say the least. No doubt you got it going on. You know we want to see pics when you get it all setup.

Thanks Sonnie,

I’ll take another listen at the 15’s. My main goal is home theater so I have to take in consideration as also to what will work for surrounds with what ever fronts I go with from here.
I’m working on a demo also on the Revel Salon 2 and the JBL M2 Master. So all this is a work in progress, I wish I had thought this thru a bit further before I purchased my Motion 40’s and the other speakers.
Oh I’ll also be adding a second PB16 Ultra to my setup.

 

[Sonnie]

You could use the Motion 40's for surrounds. The ML's do great in home theater... really nice big sound stage.

 

[DonH57]

So we will be putting together a really good information page about this subject so I won't get too detailed but just for a quick reference:

Class A: is always drawing power and creates a fair amount of heat even when not producing sound at a speaker. They also tend to be very heavy.

Class A/B: (the most common by far) when on standby or under little load are quite efficient and will switch to a class A when demand becomes high.

Class G/H: are similar to A/B but are more efficient and the design is much more costly so usually only used in high end amps.

Class B: are usually used in Tube amp design and are usually used for amps wanted for instrument amps and some headphone amps. These tend to have a higher distortion level and give a warmer sound.

Class D: is a digital (solid state) design and is a rather new design that is efficient, lightweight and runs cooler than others above.

So what is best, well each has its pros and cons. In the end cost and what you plan on driving as a speaker load is what needs to be considered first.

Please note that class AB is class A for low power then switches to class B for higher efficiency at higher power while retaining class A operation through the signal zero-crossing to keep distortion low.

Classes G and H are generally a class AB amplifier with power supply voltage rails that are switched to higher voltages on demand (G) or track the input signal (H).

The "D" in class D is not for "digital"; it was the next class after C (class C is common in RF systems but not in audio). Class D amplifier outputs usually switch between just two states (though some use more) with pulse width and frequency varying with power and signal. A filter converters the pulse string into analog audio to drive the speakers.