Advice on speaker selection ?

[Coy Ramsey]

14x14x9 room & MLP 10' from cc, old ears, damaged hearing (tinnitis), 5.2.2 system, Yamaha RX-A660 (Aventage, 80 wpc), 75% TV/movies, 25% soft

rock, clear dialog is top priority. Don't listen loud (-30 on AVR). Currently using Elac Debut B5.2 and C5.2 for L/R & cc, consider them good on music

and ok on dialog but would like an upgrade. Since dialog is primary focus, looking at center channel and matching L/R. Budget around $2k.

Consider 3-way Ascend Horizon w/Raal one of best cc speakers available but height is too high for my application (8" max).

Evaluating (, cc): 1) Ascend Luna + Duo, 2) SVS Ultra, 3) Elac Uni-Fi, and 4) Klipsch RP (500 series). Each option brings a different

technology solution to my problem. Willing to upgrade avr (i.e. Elac Uni-Fi) but would rather do this later as the next step of improvement after speakers. Any inputs or experience with these options is appreciated.

 

[ddude003]

Hi Coy, Not knowing where your hearing loss is, or your budget, I would suggest you take a look/listen to center speakers that have some ribbon or electrostatic technology if you are looking for something that is on the clear and crisp side of things... Also horns like the Klipsch you are evaluating and JBL... My preference is for Martin Logan and I am sure you can find others...

The important frequencies in Western languages are from 120Hz to 8kHz with the frequency band around 2 kHz is the most important frequency range regarding perceived intelligibility. You might look out for a center speaker that excels around the 2kHz range...

 

[Coy Ramsey]

ddude - on frequency scans and with tennitis going on I'm pretty much shot after 10k-12k which is about par for my age, 75. Unfortunately, some manufacturers cross over their drivers in the 1500-2000 Hz range which seems very foolish. I have done some auditing of horns, ribbons, and dome tweeters but haven't tried the electrostatics. Typically listening rooms are set up more for music than for vocal auditioning, I need to develop my own vocal demo source.

 

[philip vasseur]

I'm 68 and have gone through a lot of speakers. Eventually I found Revel; they have speakers at all reasonable price points and their performance is based on science, not the flowery hogwash you read in reviews. They check their speakers using blinded comparisons against the competition before selling them. Check out their facility where they do the testing, no sure of a link offhand but you can search for it, and see the very recent review of one of their bookshelf models on audiosciencereview.com

Revel M16 Speaker Review

This is a review and detailed measurements of the Revel M16 stand-mount/bookshelf speaker. I purchased this through my company and it arrived a few days ago. Can't tell you my cost :), but retail price is US $900 (sold $450 each). As you can expect, when you pay more, you do get more as far...

www.audiosciencereview.com

 

[Coy Ramsey]

Your choice should be a full range electrostatic loudspeaker, no better option for clear dialog.

The new Magnepan LRS is on my radar. Have never heard an electrostatic but reviews are good. Most reviews talk about them for music 2.1 use and very little about HT. How are the center channels ? For sure, I'd need to upgrade my electronics immediately however.

 

[Coy Ramsey]

I'm 68 and have gone through a lot of speakers. Eventually I found Revel; they have speakers at all reasonable price points and their performance is based on science, not the flowery hogwash you read in reviews. They check their speakers using blinded comparisons against the competition before selling them. Check out their facility where they do the testing, no sure of a link offhand but you can search for it, and see the very recent review of one of their bookshelf models on audiosciencereview.com

Revel M16 Speaker Review

This is a review and detailed measurements of the Revel M16 stand-mount/bookshelf speaker. I purchased this through my company and it arrived a few days ago. Can't tell you my cost :), but retail price is US $900 (sold $450 each). As you can expect, when you pay more, you do get more as far...

www.audiosciencereview.com

I'll check them out. I understand that ASR is very analytical and will dig thru their data.

 

[Nordo]

@Coy Ramsey Hi Coy.
I'm 74. Don't have too much tinnitis, but definitely have lost the upper frequency reception.
I am not going to recommend any speakers, but make a simple suggestion.

After doing a recent equ'ing of my 7.1 system, I sat back for a listen.
However, based on something I read somewhere, I also threw a quilt over the back of my leather chairs.
Suddenly I could hear speech better than ever. And I also had to turn the whole system down.

A simple tweak I would definitely recommend.

 

[Travis Ballstadt]

Before spending any money, I’d recommend swapping your center channel with one of your surrounds and live with that for a couple weeks. See if the improves anything.

You may be struggling because of lobing. Here’s a bit of an explanation:

Seymour AV | Center Best Practice

Seymour AV is the premier manufacturer of acoustically transparent home theater projection screens in the world, maintaining the highest standards in projection screen innovation, design and craftsmanship

www.seymourav.com

 

[Kal Rubinson]

Before spending any money, I’d recommend swapping your center channel with one of your surrounds and live with that for a couple weeks. See if the improves anything.

Good point. The OP should only consider 3-way center speakers with vertically stacked mid and tweeter.

 

[Grayson Dere]

The Monolith THX Ultra series speakers from Monoprice have reviewed very well according to sources online. The center channel with L/R bookshelf speakers will run you around $1400 before shipping + tax. You'll need stands for the L/R bookshelves.

https://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=34188
https://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=34189

 

[Head_Unit]

You may be struggling because of lobing.

3-way center speakers with vertically stacked mid and tweeter.

Yup and yup! Though coaxial mid/tweet a la KEF or ELAC avoid lobing as well.
@Coy Ramsey I'd also riff on @Nordo's suggestion...I'd like to see PICTURES of your setup and room. Placement and aim can also kill centers, and reflections near the listening area kill intelligibility. Oh also consider using Yamaha's YPAO to EQ the mid etc if your hearing needs it.

 

[Coy Ramsey]

This shot is a bit dated but shows the basic L/C/R setup. I have upgraded the small sub to a RSL Speedwoofer 10s. Yamaha Ypao plus cc is up about 6 dB. Many EQ mods tried.

 

[Grayson Dere]

I'm VERY happy with the performance of my RSL Speedwoofer 10s! Good choice : D

 

[Nordo]

This shot is a bit dated but shows the basic L/C/R setup. I have upgraded the small sub to a RSL Speedwoofer 10s. Yamaha Ypao plus cc is up about 6 dB. Many EQ mods tried.


View attachment 40634

The room has many things I can see that could create a problem.
First, move the centre further toward the front of the cabinet, so that it hangs over the edge slightly.
Second, you can't have the coffee table where it is. It will be giving a reflection almost as strong as the direct sound. Replace it with a large thick rug.
The other problems will need a lot more work and thought.
The mains will be generating reflections - from the sides as well as the rear. The glass close to the left main will be particularly strong and bright.
If you want a good listening room, these will need to be tamed. Depending on the rest of the family, this may be difficult to achieve.
I would concentrate on getting the best sound, stage, etc. from your mains using quality records. e.g. stereo recordings.
Then do a similar thing with your sub. This time using recordings you know have a great bass.
There is heaps of information to help you achieve this, both on AV NIRVANA and other sites.
You just have to learn to separate the wheat from the chaff.

 

[Nordo]

BTW, something I found that improved dialogue in my home theatre.
We have soft leather seats, but on someone's advice I threw an old feather doona over the front seats (he actually suggested a soft blanket).
I found dialogue appeared to be much clearer.

I suffer from tinnitus only every now and again, but I have definitely lost a lot of my hearing's upper register (I'm 75 year old ).
Currently we are looking at selling our house (with the HT) and downsizing.
So my recent research into centres with clearer dialogue has concentrated on soundbars.
And there are definitely soundbars that concentrate on clarifying dialogue.
So I would assume there are websites that have tested and rated centres, including rating their clarity for dialogue.

 

[Sonnie]

BTW, something I found that improved dialogue in my home theatre.
We have soft leather seats, but on someone's advice I threw an old feather doona over the front seats (he actually suggested a soft blanket).
I found dialogue appeared to be much clearer.

I suffer from tinnitus only every now and again, but I have definitely lost a lot of my hearing's upper register (I'm 75 year old ).
Currently we are looking at selling our house (with the HT) and downsizing.
So my recent research into centres with clearer dialogue has concentrated on soundbars.
And there are definitely soundbars that concentrate on clarifying dialogue.
So I would assume there are websites that have tested and rated centres, including rating their clarity for dialogue.

I've struggled with dialogue for years... best speaker to overcome that was the MartinLogan Stage II that I once had... now I have the ML Focus C-18, which is even better. I've long had blankets (upholstered to fit) on the tops of my leather recliners. I have two fluffy blankets underneath my main listening position cover blanket to help absorb the sound off the back of it. Works very well.

 

[Coy Ramsey]

I've struggled with dialogue for years... best speaker to overcome that was the MartinLogan Stage II that I once had... now I have the ML Focus C-18, which is even better. I've long had blankets (upholstered to fit) on the tops of my leather recliners. I have two fluffy blankets underneath my main listening position cover blanket to help absorb the sound off the back of it. Works very well.

That is very interesting. I'll need to research ML which had not been on my radar for an upgrade for my fronts. More than I intended spending but maybe the ESL model might slip past the auditor (WAF).

 

[Nordo]

That is very interesting. I'll need to research ML which had not been on my radar for an upgrade for my fronts. More than I intended spending but maybe the ESL model might slip past the auditor (WAF).

The C-18 is top-of-the-line.
But ML do have other options.
Maybe if the C-18 is out of your range, Sonnie might be able to suggest something a little more affordable with a high WAF.

 

[Sonnie]

There is the Illusion ESL C34A that I wish I had room for, but I don't.

I have not heard any of their newer models that are priced less... but I was never impressed with some of the other centers that I had in the past. The Stage, Stage II and this C-18 are the only ones I felt were better for dialogue. I can't tell you they would be any better for you in your room and your setup, but they work better for me. However, I still bump up 750-2000Hz about 3-4dB when setting my target curve for the center.

 

[ddude003]

Anyone heard a JBL compression horn as, or in, a center channel speaker??? I just wonder...

I think @NBPK402 has a K402 MEH (Klipsch horn) for a center channel...

 

[Sonnie]

I never have, but that might very well be a viable option... logically thinking.

 

[Coy Ramsey]

Anyone heard a JBL compression horn as, or in, a center channel speaker??? I just wonder...

Yeah, I keep drifting back to look at the JBL's as well. Sonnie's inputs are spot-on for the ML, thanks

 

[ddude003]

I would extend @Sonnie 's bump out to 4kHz as the important frequency range for speech intelligibility is in the 1kHz to 4kHz range and centers around 2kHz...