What measurements to consider and subwoofer integration?

Joffieb

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Hi All,

I recently posted a thread about measurements and Member SM52 was very gracious in answering all my questions. Thank you!

What I learnt on a general level is that in setting up speakers, it is not just frequency response and trying to get them to match a house curve that REW can be used for but that one must also consider the measurements of IR for reflections and Distortion figures. My question is, what else is something to look to correct? (I already look at the spectrogram window to make sure there isn't much late reflection). Thanks

Also, I want to integrate my sub better as I'm getting distortion when it plays alongside my right speaker. It is a totally analogue system (i.e. separate outputs from my preamp go to my power amp and sub. Any correction is done digitally between the streamer and the DAC). If anyone has a tutorial that they can point me to, I'd really appreciate it. Again, I have no facility to differentiate the time delays between the speakers and the sub and all I can change is position, gain and crossover.

Thanks so much!!!
 

Chris A

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sm52

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Your sub has no phase adjustment? If not, I would replace it or add a basic minidsp to enable that.
Usually this is not required. Using a time shift, you can always more accurately coordinate the phases of subs and speakers.
 

natty

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Usually this is not required. Using a time shift, you can always more accurately coordinate the phases of subs and speakers.
Sure, but maybe I am reading the first post wrong but I was under the impression that they have no distance adjustment available, ie, no delay adjustment available........in which case, phase is the closest possible option -- if the OP has this.

He says he cannot change anything other than position, gain, and crossover.
 

natty

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Chris A

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Joined
May 22, 2017
Messages
44
Location
Arlington, Tx
More  
Preamp, Processor or Receiver
Emotiva XMC-1 AVP, Xilica XP-8080 & miniDSP 2x4 HD
Main Amp
First Watt F3, Crown D75-As (5 total) bi-amping
Additional Amp
Crown XTi-1000 for subwoofers (2)
DAC
Topping D10 Balanced (stereo only mode)
Universal / Blu-ray / CD Player
LG UBK90, Oppo BDP-103, Laptop
Front Speakers
Klipsch Jubilees (TAD TD-4002 compression drivers)
Center Channel Speaker
K-402-Multiple Entry Horn (full range)
Surround Speakers
Klipsch Belle bass bins with ESS AMT-1, bi-amped
Surround Back Speakers
-
Front Height Speakers
-
Rear Height Speakers
-
Subwoofers
DIY SPUD Tapped Horn (2) behind fronts
Screen
LG OLED 77"
Remote Control
Logitech Harmony One
Nowadays, I can't imagine not having DSP crossovers correcting/flattening the transfer function (i.e., amplitude and phase) on each surround channel. The difference in sound quality is like that between the living and the dead (and I'm not talking about "automatic EQ" setups like Dirac Live, etc. which I find have never worked properly). The benefit/cost of DSP crossovers is the highest of all hi-fi system capabilities, except having a good listening room size and acoustics, and excellent loudspeakers.

Of course, my particular setup is fully horn loaded all the way around (5.2) which benefits even more than typical direct radiating loudspeakers, but in my experience, getting not only the amplitude portion of the transfer function flattened (the SPL response) but also phase (i.e., linear phase response) makes a huge difference in involvement in the listening experience. Lastly, controlling for early reflections around the loudspeakers and listening positions is the final ingredient that opens the door to real hi-fi reproduction.

When you hear recordings having outstanding phase fidelity (e.g., multichannel SACDs, etc.) on a setup having outstanding transfer function flatness, controlled early reflections, and the absence of modulation distortion (the effect of horn-loading all channels), the in-room experience literally comes alive. Enjoy!

Chris
 

natty

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I agree. In general avoiding correction of amplitude and phase seems like driving a classic car from the 1920s. That's a fine and worthy pursuit, but won't be adaptable to a modern driving situation most of the time.
 
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Hi All,

I recently posted a thread about measurements and Member SM52 was very gracious in answering all my questions. Thank you!

What I learnt on a general level is that in setting up speakers, it is not just frequency response and trying to get them to match a house curve that REW can be used for but that one must also consider the measurements of IR for reflections and Distortion figures. My question is, what else is something to look to correct? (I already look at the spectrogram window to make sure there isn't much late reflection). Thanks

Also, I want to integrate my sub better as I'm getting distortion when it plays alongside my right speaker. It is a totally analogue system (i.e. separate outputs from my preamp go to my power amp and sub. Any correction is done digitally between the streamer and the DAC). If anyone has a tutorial that they can point me to, I'd really appreciate it. Again, I have no facility to differentiate the time delays between the speakers and the sub and all I can change is position, gain and crossover.

Thanks so much!!!
Please see our tech on this topic: Using miniDSP Device Console, REW and Dirac Live to achieve the subwoofer sound you always knew was possible

Deer Creek Audio is an aurhorized miniDSP dealer
 

Joffieb

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More  
Preamp, Processor or Receiver
Rotel RC995
Main Amp
Rotel RB981
DAC
Modi 3
Front Speakers
B&W 685s2
Subwoofers
AE Aegis Neo V2
Streaming Equipment
Audioengine B-Fi
Streaming Subscriptions
Tidal, Spotify
Other Equipment
MiniDsp nanoDigi 2x8
Your sub has no phase adjustment? If not, I would replace it or add a basic minidsp to enable that.
I can adjust phase!!!! Thanks
 

natty

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Jan 21, 2019
Messages
84
I can adjust phase!!!! Thanks
Cool. Then in many rooms this is what you need to set the "distance" in the sense of time aligning the subwoofer with your mains. REW can help you set it correctly.

Again, I have no facility to differentiate the time delays between the speakers and the sub and all I can change is position, gain and crossover.

Since you cannot adjust delays for your mains, you will need to keep them all at the same distance from you, for the ideal integration.
 
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Cool. Then in many rooms this is what you need to set the "distance" in the sense of time aligning the subwoofer with your mains. REW can help you set it correctly.



Since you cannot adjust delays for your mains, you will need to keep them all at the same distance from you, for the ideal integration.
Here is our video on adjusting delay . The second example is using the electronic method on a 2.2 stereo system.

Deer Creek Audio is an authorized miniDSP dealer
 
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natty

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IIRC the OP explicitly didn't want to use any digital processing, so the miniDSP, while excellent, doesn't fit their use case.
 
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