Trying to make sense of all the "tests" i have seen on the internet

[Jtrboy]

I have seen numerous tests on subs at 130 dbls and speakers that crank out 2,000 watts or more. I see people posting how they test their subs to show the max performance, but they do so with ear plugs in. Ive even seen a few who have done damage to their theater rooms because of the vibrations of their systems.

Are there tests out there that compare speakers at, lets say 90 db (or at a level that you can comfortably watch a two hour movie)? At this level, is a JTR Noesis really that much better than a Klipsch or SVS Prime tower? At a moderate sound level, will a Klipsch RP8000F sound as good as JTR Noesis?

 

[Sonnie]

It depends on where you want to reach 90dB... if it is at 15-20Hz... the JTR will likely get you there easier and with more authority than the Klipsch.

It's not necessarily continuous power and output, but dynamic power and output for the demanding scenes.

I don't think there are very many out there that are pushing 130dB during normal watching of a movie.

 

[Todd Anderson]

When it comes to subs, having extra power under the hood is a good thing. Overhead allows the sub to perform well at 90 to 100dB without bottoming out. Under powered subs can easily get exposed, and I’ve always found it ruins the listening experience.

Loudspeakers are a whole other ball of wax. Yes, there are speakers that sound great until volume levels are pushed. But, there are loads of other factors that influence tonality of a speaker (including your room). I’d bet the JTR sounds better than the Klipsch at moderate levels... but that would have nothing to do with power handling capabilities.

 

[Jtrboy]

thank you for your input.........im trying to determine when the "law of diminishing returns" kicks in. I dont think I can justify paying $6,000 for two Noesis 212's when I can get 2 RF 8000 Klipsch for $1,400. Yes I understand the Noesis are much better speakers, but are they worth $4,600 more? That would buy me 2 nice subs. Im looking to power all this with the Marantz 8015. Theres so much for me to learn !!

Right now all I have are 2 JBL N38II towers and a JBL 10 inch sub and a tiny front channel speaker. So anything will be a major upgrade.

 

[chrapladm]

So many variables to consider. I would suggest having a listen somewhere before you spend your money. The Klipsch speakers would be an upgrade I feel but not my fist pick. BUT what I may like you may not.

I am a DIY guy and after many projects I have discovered I only like a handful of tweeters. The AMT and dome tweeters and electrostatic tech. I let my ears be the judge and then save for which ever I can actually afford. I love the 800 series from B&W and Martin Logan ESL. After seeing JTR prices compared to the speakers I like I dont find them to be that costly in comparison.

Try not to listen to the top tier of any company because you may find out what your missing and your wallet wont allow you to have them.

I do like the BMS coaxial tweeter which JTR uses. If I was on a tight budget I would buy the JTR210($3600pr)for less than the 212($6000).

 

[tesseract]

Are there tests out there that compare speakers at, lets say 90 db (or at a level that you can comfortably watch a two hour movie)? At this level, is a JTR Noesis really that much better than a Klipsch or SVS Prime tower? At a moderate sound level, will a Klipsch RP8000F sound as good as JTR Noesis?

The BMS driver in the JTR Noesis RT horns has a distortion rating of .01% a @100 dB in the midband, an amplifier-level of distortion and orders of magnitude less than the other two. It's just a much better, uncolored presentation of the signal. Then there are the imaging properties, a real JTR standout that must be heard to understand.

There is much more to a speaker than dynamic ability and yes, JTR is not only worth the upcharge, but a bargain, even at those seemingly high prices, competing handily with the best in the world, at any cost.

That said, many people start out with Klipsch or SVS and there is nothing wrong with that, those are great brands, too (I have much experience with all three brands you mentioned). I will say that I have seen many, many people move from SVS and Klipsch to JTR. I have NEVER seen anyone go from JTR to SVS or Klipsch, though.

 

[Jon Lane]

I have seen numerous tests on subs at 130 dbls and speakers that crank out 2,000 watts or more. I see people posting how they test their subs to show the max performance, but they do so with ear plugs in. Ive even seen a few who have done damage to their theater rooms because of the vibrations of their systems.

Are there tests out there that compare speakers at, lets say 90 db (or at a level that you can comfortably watch a two hour movie)? At this level, is a JTR Noesis really that much better than a Klipsch or SVS Prime tower? At a moderate sound level, will a Klipsch RP8000F sound as good as JTR Noesis?

The BMS driver in the JTR Noesis RT horns has a distortion rating of .01% a @100 dB in the midland, an amplifier-level of distortion and orders of magnitude less than the other two. It's just a much better, uncolored presentation of the signal.

Combine an inquisitive customer with inexpensive data and there will be a natural tendency to assume that a measured abstract speaks for real sound. Unfortunately it's not that easy.

Data speaks for sound like a power curve speaks for driving or a list of ingredients speaks for flavor. They're all essential but they all have to be interpreted for how they fit the complex design and are tuned to it.

Loudspeakers are no more immune to their degree of quality - where quality always has a cost - than anything else. And loudspeakers can vary in very important ways that don't appear in the data. The same is true for any complex device.

If we have to plug our ears to evaluate a subwoofer we may have missed the point. As with most things, we have to experience it to know what it really is, in this case outside of the obvious SPL versus frequency acrobatics.

 

[Jon Lane]

A friend just picked up a pair of vintage Hartley 24" woofers in open back OEM 'boffles'. He's dialing them in on a modern AVR as LFE drivers. They won't make 20Hz but they will be in the running for bass quality.

They're an example of a relatively light duty speaker that capitalizes on sheer driven area, and in pairs, on mutual acoustical loading. The net result is a degree of bass quality, timbre, and texture beyond the usual force-over-distance speaker equalized to 20Hz and driven by a thousand watts.

Of course, they won't go as loud either, but they are an example of how qualities evidence themselves in different ways, and how with some experience with these hardware extremes our tastes may change.