TRITON ONE.R vs Martin Logan ESL 13A or 15A ??

[henryeng]

And I have the 11a's and Triton 1's sitting next to each other in my living room. Just got he 11a's, and they are a perfect match for my Marantz 9's.....I could tell within 30 seconds that this was realism heaven. I love the Tritons, and after the honeymoon is over the new Martin Logans, I will reassess, but this is the first time in 60 years of audiophiling that I have had an instant response to a new piece of equipment like this. Is it the speakers, the room, the amps,,,,,,not sure, but I cannot imagine a more realistic sound than this, and I am an orchestral cellist. Its crazy, but I actually hear the bow contacting the string on recordings I have had for 49 years......amazing. No finicky placement problems and have not yet done the ARC bass thing, yet imagining is scary good and the bass is tight---that is a problem with these tube amps working with built-in subs. Will keep you posted if you wish.

Hey Willy.....any thoughts about the 11As...now that you've had them for a while??

Thanks,
Hank L

 

[AudiocRaver]

I am very curious as well.

 

[henryeng]

Hello Willy!.....how are you liking the 11As? Or do you prefer the Tritons? Inquiring minds (and ears) want to know!...

 

[henryeng]

Hmmm....never heard back from Willy. You there?

 

[Sonnie]

Willy is AWOL... lol... one and done I suppose.

I've never had the Triton's in my room, but I've had uhmmmm probably 50-60 different speakers in here with all the evaluations we have done, and there is nothing that has ever come anywhere close to any of my ML speakers... any of them. Of course the 15A are my favorite thus far, but the Montis and 11A were also very nice. I also have serious absorption panels behind mine. We tried dispersion panels, bare walls, and absorption... which won out. If you check out the ML owners forum, there are quite a few who use absorption behind the speakers. Placement of the speakers (think Cardas speaker setup) and listening position are critical for the best sound. I've never heard a really good ML setup like mine, and we worked hours upon days getting it right in my room... Wayne and Dennis will attest to this truth. They were good in several locations, but they are phenomenal in the current location.

 

[henryeng]

Hi Sonnie,
Yeah, I guess Willy is history...bummer...since I was really interested to hear his feedback. And thanks for the info on your acoustic treatment with the MLs. That makes perfect sense...and would also apply to my room with its wood paneling behind the speakers. I know the MLs should sound superb, with their very low distortion etc. I just haven't heard them in a proper listening room with a good setup. I spoke with some guys at ML several months ago, and they hinted at a new series of ESLs that should be coming in late 2024. So I think I'll wait for now, enjoy my Triton One.Rs, and look forward to a new generation from ML.

Thanks again...

 

[henryeng]

Hi Sonnie (etc...)
I've found another dealer in the LA area that has MLs. An actual hi fi shop, not Best Buy...so I'm hoping to hear either ESL13s or ESL15s soon, in a decent acoustic environment. I've also looked at Sound Labs speakers...but they're just too large and power-hungry. (Would probably would cause excessive "spousal resistance", much harder to correct than a speaker impedance mismatch !) I'll keep you posted...

 

[Sonnie]

Let us know. Try to move backwards and forwards (on inside of the triangle) if you can. I'm much closer to mine than what I see most having theirs setup. They are more at or outside the triangle, which made no sense to us when we set mine up.

 

[henryeng]

Thanks for that suggestion. Can you post a pic or drawinig/diagram of your speaker placement?

 

[Sonnie]

I don't have a diagram, but you can get a good idea from this video: https://avnirvana.cc/

 

[henryeng]

Hi Sonnie, etc....well....I finally had a chance to listen to ESL15As in a decent demo room. A small hi fi shop nearby. They had the 15s set up about 10' apart, though my listening position was a bit too close - about 6'-7' in front of the speaker line. They used a Mc SACD player driving a pair of 300w Mc solid state monoblock amps. Nearly identical to my setup. My goal was to hear if the ESLs could deliver the dynamics and "punch" of the Triton One.Rs. And they did!...in a big way! Tremendous dynamics, even more than what I've heard from the Tritons. (I didn't think that was possible.) Very powerful and accurate bass, as accurate as it could be considering the back of the woofer cabinet was barely 12" from the back wall, and ARC was not in use. But I have no questions about bass performance. The room was about 12' deep, so the opposite wall was only about 5' behind my listening position. So all things considered...bass was quite good. I was carefully watching the output meters on the power amps...and even in very loud parts of my classical music SACDs, they were rarely indicating over 50 watts. So no question about driving them with my MA8900 (200 wpc).
The mids and highs were very realistic, smooth, never peaky or shrieky. Very natural. The overall sound was actually fairly similar to the One.Rs...but slightly smoother top end. The "acid test" were passages with loud cymbal "crashes": very high amplitude, high frequency, wide bandwidth audio....and they sounded very natural without harshness. Slightly more open and smoother than the One.Rs (but at 6x the price!...so no complaints about the Tritons!). SO....my curiosity has been satisfied. The ESL15As finally blew me away, just as I had expected of the technology. The shop owner said that the 13s wouldn't have the same dynamics as the 15s. That's probably true to some extent. And these 15a are "slightly used", so if he offers them at a good price, I'll probably bite. In all....I was very impressed with what I heard. They sound like music, not speakers. Again...the One.Rs sound incredible...but the ESL15As raise the bar several notches.

 

[Sonnie]

Thanks for sharing... glad you enjoyed them.

My 15A's may be up for sale soon. It will depend on how well the RTJ 410 speakers sound when I get them in the house.

 

[henryeng]

Large, heavy speakers are a pain to resell, pack, and ship! But good luck withe the new ones. I'm not familiar with them. Better than ESLs?

 

[Sonnie]

Yeah... I've sold several. I keep the boxes intact and parked in my storage building, so it's not too bad. I have a friend in town who ships via truck daily, and he gets me a pretty good deal on shipping. He puts items on a pallet and wraps them for me. I've had extreme success selling all my large subs and speakers, usually very quickly, because I always have great prices on them.

I'm not sure if the 410 speakers will be better or not. That's what I plan to find out when they get here.

 

[henryeng]

Well....keep me posted! Hearing the ESL15s only confirmed the exceptional performance of the Triton One.Rs. They are a hard-act-to-follow indeed. Bummer that the new owner of Goldenear is discontinuing them (and the 2+, etc). The "new and improved" speaker they're now promoting appears to be "less speaker" than what they've discontinued.

Have fun with your new speakers...

Thanks,

 

[henryeng]

Hey Sonnie...
I've found an ML rep who has ESL13s in their demo room, so I'll be auditioning them in a few days. In the meantime, I have a few questions for you. You've obviously invested a lot of time and effort to get your MLs to sound their best....so...can you please enlighten me?...
1. How far from the front wall is the back of your ML woofer enclosure?
2. What kind of absorbtion panels are you using? Size? Thickness? Manufacturer? Mounted on the wall behind the stat panel I assume?

Many thanks...
Hank

 

[Sonnie]

The distance needed will vary by room, but if you start with the recommended Cardas setup, you can adjust from there.

Speaker Placement | Cardas Audio

The Cardas Speaker Placement Guide. Setting up speakers in a golden ratio, golden cuboid, golden trapagon room, etc.. Speaker placement calculators.

www.cardas.com

I ended up with the front panel about 5 feet from the front wall behind the speaker. That did not change with the Montis or the 11A when I had those, or even the Electromotion ESL and Classic 9. All have had the front panel at the same location for their best sound. We may have towed one in a little more than the other... the rear distance of the speaker was different on all of them (only two with rear-firing sub)... the front panel is what really matters in most cases.

I tried dispersion panels and then covered those with 7" thick absorption panels, and we liked it better, as do many e-stat owners.

This thread will give you the full details: https://www.avnirvana.com/threads/custom-diy-diffuser-panels.8367/

 

[henryeng]

Thanks so much for that info. I'll be auditioning the 13s on Monday, then decide which way to go: 15s or 13s.
The stat panels will be about 4' off the wall, maybe not the ideal 5' as in your setup, but probably sufficient. I'll add some acoustic absorbing panels on the wall behind the speakers to prevent excessive first reflections. The rest of the room is probably 'dead' enough, and the 50' room depth (w/ furniture etc) should eliminate standing waves, bass resonances/nulls etc. Thanks again for your insight...

 

[henryeng]

And I have the 11a's and Triton 1's sitting next to each other in my living room. Just got he 11a's, and they are a perfect match for my Marantz 9's.....I could tell within 30 seconds that this was realism heaven. I love the Tritons, and after the honeymoon is over the new Martin Logans, I will reassess, but this is the first time in 60 years of audiophiling that I have had an instant response to a new piece of equipment like this. Is it the speakers, the room, the amps,,,,,,not sure, but I cannot imagine a more realistic sound than this, and I am an orchestral cellist. Its crazy, but I actually hear the bow contacting the string on recordings I have had for 49 years......amazing. No finicky placement problems and have not yet done the ARC bass thing, yet imagining is scary good and the bass is tight---that is a problem with these tube amps working with built-in subs. Will keep you posted if you wish.

Hi Willy,
It’s been quite while since you posted about getting your ESL11As. Do you still have them? Still like them? I about ready to order 13s!

 

[willygevans]

Hi Willy,
It’s been quite while since you posted about getting your ESL11As. Do you still have them? Still like them? I about ready to order 13s!

Hey.....sorry I've been missing in action. Still have the 11as and the Tritons.....only use the MLs. for now.
Still think they are awesome. Have been lately driving with the gigantic Marantz MA9-S1 monoblocks, The tube 9's sound better, I feel, even driven in triode mode @35 watts, rather than 300 watts in the newer solid state amps. I think its the damping factor getting rid of a bit of the 'perfection' and tightness the newer amps seem to have---most recordings just sound a bit more like live performance.

 

[henryeng]

Welcome back and thanks for that update. I finally decided to stop overthinking and just “pull the trigger” on the 13s. I’m sure they’ll be great. I have a 200 wpc McIntosh integrated amp which should drive them fine. I have still never heard properly set up 13s, but I did hear (mostly) set up 15s and the 13s should be pretty close. (Even the guy at ML said the 15s would be “too much speaker” for my room size.) So I’ll have more to report in a few weeks! Thanks for relating your thoughts….

 

[willygevans]

I do think the room size match is important. I contemplated the 13s, but now I realize this is more than enough for this room volume. Can't imagine anything could sound much better.
My 11a's speak into a 16'X13' listening space, but behind are open to a large 10'X22' piano area—lots of curves and things breaking up the sound, wall 10' back from ML's—and I get wonderful imaging with this setup. Even moving the panels a foot in or out sideways changes the bass response and screws up the image and depth. Listening position is about 13' from the MLs.
I have to say I lucked out in initial placement, but have used this particular setup with other speakers for years—omni, dipoles and front speaking, and have been able to make them all sound decent. I do not have much trouble with standing waves or nasty room resonances since my house has concrete and steel floor construction—nothing to vibrate. With the tubes and 11a's, any bass problems just went away....lucky combo of things. The floor is thick carpet and the ceiling is a deep 'popcorn like' plaster texture—get no weird reflections.

 

[henryeng]

Hi Willy,
Thanks for that info. You’ve got an ideal situation for dipole speakers. My room is about the same size: 18’ wide with 8’ ceiling. But behind the speakers will be a wood paneled wall which is very reflective. The stat panels will be about 40” from this wall. I’ll install a 2’ x 4’ absorption panel behind each speaker to soak up the backwave. The speakers will be about 8’ apart, and my listening position will be about 10’ in front of them. I’m hoping for good imaging….since there’s not any way to change this positioning. Behind my listening position is a large open space - about 35’ deep - with lots of furniture etc to break up reflections. So I don’t have any issues with standing waves, bass nulls or peaks. So I’m good there…..the Tritons have always sounded really solid with bass.
So I’m keeping my fingers crossed for good imaging after I write The Big Check!
When I recently heard some 15s, they were pushed up against the back wall with no acoustic absorption….. and yet they imaged quite well…so I’m hopeful mine will do well.

 

[henryeng]

In any case, since audiophiles have convinced me that vinyl is superior to this woke digital stuff, I’ve added a turntable to my system. Lets see if the MLs can live up to this!!

 

[henryeng]

My ESL13As should be arriving next week!