Topping balanced PA5 amplifier

NBPK402

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I am not sure if you have heard of this little amplifier, but is one of the hottest amp bargains out there. I read a lot of the reviews and I also read the testing on ASR. I decided to give it a try since it is appears to be such a bargain, and I also need more amps for my MEH surrounds when they are done (It is one of the best amps tested to date, and is only $349 on Amazon). I ordered 2 so I could compare them to my IcePower 50ASX2BTL amps on the compression drivers only... I might give it a try to see if it can drive 2 15" woofers per channel from a single stereo amp too. I cant wait to try them out on the Celestion AXI 2050 compression drivers hen I get them sometime next month.

Build quality is very good with a nice metal case, balanced TRS jacks, front toggles for power and to switch between 2 inputs...plus a volume control if you do not have a preamp or if you desire to use it as an integrated amp. For use with my preamp... I max the volume control and set my gains with my Xilica crossover, and then my Marantz controls the volume.

So far I have listened to a few tracks and I def can hear a difference. On on this track I can hear a delicate sounding bell or a wind chime being hit, that moves across the front of the stage. very crisp, but not as crisp as the finger snaps on the track. the finger snapping is very realistic in my room. Both of these were either barely audible or audible and not really sounding realistic on the Icepower amps.
RoonShareImage-637861597557248380.png


I have also noticed that the hiss I get from my compression drivers was just barely noticeable from about 3 feet from the speaker and now you have to try to hear it with your ear within 1 foot from the speaker. The amp may not be the best for your setup, but I think it would work out fine for any setup with speakers that are 90DB+ efficient (depending on how loud you want to listen). even if they are not the end all amp for you...they sure could work out as an interim amp until you find the perfect amp for your setup...at which time you could sell the amp and get most of your money back, or give it to a friend who is starting out.


Here are a couple of pics of the amp on top of my IcePower amp on top of my speaker...please excuse the dust on the amp, as it has been sitting there for 2 days.
amp pic 2.jpg
amp pic 1.jpg




Specifications:
Output power:
140W x2 @4Ω THD+N <10%
125W x2 @4Ω THD+N <1%
85W x2 @8Ω THD+N <10%
65W x2 @8Ω THD+N <1%
THD+N @1kHz (A-wt):
<0.0005% @4Ω 5W
<0.0004% @8Ω 5W
THD @No-wt (20kBW):
<0.0015% @4Ω 5W
<0.0006% @8Ω 5W
SNR @A-wt: 124dB
Dynamic Range @A-wt: 124dB
Output level
65Vpp@4Ω
68Vpp@8Ω
Noise @A-wt: <16uVrms
Channel crosstalk @1kHz: -106dB
Input sensitivity: 2.6Vrms
Gain: 19.1dB
 
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dsnyder0cnn

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I bought one to use in a desktop setup with a pair of GR-Research LGK 2.0 monitors that a friend is building for me. But, just for fun, I gave the PA5 a try in my main system, replacing a pair of Orchard Audio monoblocks. Like you, I set the volume to max and controlled levels downstream. The gain on the PA5 is actually a little higher than the monoblocks, so I had to turn the levels on my subs up a few dB to match. Otherwise, I'm really not sure that I could hear any difference. My speakers are 8Ω with ~87 dB efficiency, so not crazy efficient, but I'm able to listen at my usual average levels of 83 to 87 dB without feeling like I'm running out of headroom.

I know the PA5 will be amazing for its intended purpose on the desktop, but, based on posts I've read, it does seem that the majority of units out there are being pressed into service elsewhere due to the excellent performance. There have been quite a few posts about reliability issues with this unit, but I've not had any problems so far. It could be that it does not stand up to abuse as much as a larger general purpose amp. Not sure, but fingers crossed, I've yet to have an issue.

This thing stacks beautifully with the E50 DAC and L50 headphone amp. The performance of this $850 set is better than just about anything you could buy regardless of price a decade ago. This is a good time to be into Hi-Fi, in spite of the supply chain shortages.

51253


51254


Edit: Really, my only complaint about this stack is that the barrel connectors for the E50 DAC (5V DC) and L50 headphone amp (15V AC) are the same size. It would be easy to connect 15V to the DAC by mistake, which might let out the "magic smoke."
 
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NBPK402

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I bought one to use in a desktop setup with a pair of GR-Research LGK 2.0 monitors that a friend is building for me. But, just for fun, I gave the PA5 a try in my main system, replacing a pair of Orchard Audio monoblocks. Like you, I set the volume to max and controlled levels downstream. The gain on the PA5 is actually a little higher than the monoblocks, so I had to turn the levels on my subs up a few dB to match. Otherwise, I'm really not sure that I could hear any difference. My speakers are 8Ω with ~87 dB efficiency, so not crazy efficient, but I'm able to listen at my usual average levels of 83 to 87 dB without feeling like I'm running out of headroom.

I know the PA5 will be amazing for its intended purpose on the desktop, but, based on posts I've read, it does seem that the majority of units out there are being pressed into service elsewhere due to the excellent performance. There have been quite a few posts about reliability issues with this unit, but I've not had any problems so far. It could be that it does not stand up to abuse as much as a larger general purpose amp. Not sure, but fingers crossed, I've yet to have an issue.

This thing stacks beautifully with the E50 DAC and L50 headphone amp. The performance of this $850 set is better than just about anything you could buy regardless of price a decade ago. This is a good time to be into Hi-Fi, in spite of the supply chain shortages.

View attachment 51253

View attachment 51254

Edit: Really, my only complaint about this stack is that the barrel connectors for the E50 DAC (5V DC) and L50 headphone amp (15V AC) are the same size. It would be easy to connect 15V to the DAC by mistake, which might let out the "magic smoke."
I am loving mine so far too. The only thing at this point that is stopping me from hooking them up to my woofers is...I have Speakons, and I do not want to change the end to banana jacks. I looked around to see if anyone had an adapter to convert and could not find one.

Of course my horns are an easy load for these amps, and I can see why many people are driving their main setup with them.
 

dhai

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I bought the E50 Dac + PA5 Amp + TCT1 cable set, to find out if current "audio science" is a valid lead for me ;)
Burning in was 10 weeks of 250GB mixed music from SD card player.
Intermediate listening impressions changed from really bad after arrival to acceptable but strange to impressive detail but still somehow uninvolving during these 10 weeks. On 84 dB / 8 ohms speakers.

After "burning in" a first comparison last Friday on Alphahorn prototypes (98dB 8ohms) together with a visitor: Source SMSL SD-9 SD card player -> USB cable to Topping combo versa -> glass SPDIF into modified EAR Dac4 via cinch to Sugden FBA 800 amplifier. Extreme price difference, but I want to know how good modern classD and dacs are. After some classical and jazz I played tracks from Adele's 25 for my visitor, which he is more familiar with. We had short and longer intervals of music between changes. Our impression was that the Topping combo has impressive detail and nice dynamics, but distortet HF above upper presence (say, 3kHz upwards).
When Adele raises her voice in a refrain, it sounds clearly distortet. I also don't like that everything sounds quite equal, different timbres are not resolved: as if every sound is composed of modulated noise instead of clean harmonics. Also, some depth (cardboard imaging?) and room acoustical information gets lost.

We intend another comparison with more listeners next Thursday.

A good Sunday to everybody!
David
 

dsnyder0cnn

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After some classical and jazz I played tracks from Adele's 25 for my visitor, which he is more familiar with. We had short and longer intervals of music between changes. Our impression was that the Topping combo has impressive detail and nice dynamics, but distortet HF above upper presence (say, 3kHz upwards).
When Adele raises her voice in a refrain, it sounds clearly distortet. I also don't like that everything sounds quite equal, different timbres are not resolved: as if every sound is composed of modulated noise instead of clean harmonics. Also, some depth (cardboard imaging?) and room acoustical information gets lost.

We intend another comparison with more listeners next Thursday.

Pretty strange. I've not had that experience; however, the gain structure I'm using may be different. I read somewhere that the Gustard X16 DAC (which I also have), uses the same DAC chip and does not handle intersample peaks well. Like many (most?) oversampling DACs, peaks above 0 dB are clipped. This is likely also the case with the E50. I wonder if this is what you're hearing.

Another possibility is that the balanced inputs on the PA5 are being overdriven. They should support 4V without overloading, but since maximum power can be achieved with only 2.5V of input (per Amir), perhaps anything above that results in increased distortion. Would be a shame if that turns out to be true.

For your next listening test, I suggest attenuating the signal in your media player before it gets to the DAC by at least 4.1 dB. In Roon, you would do this using Headroom management in the DSP settings for the zone. I'm not familiar with the SMSL SD-9, but it looks like it has a volume control knob, so similar reduction in levels should be possible. Assuming it also uses 64-bit math for the adjustment, the results should be transparent to the source even though the signal will not be bit-perfect.

For my application, I have the volume control on the PA5 set to maximum and I'm running the E50 in DAC mode (no attenuation), I'm typically using 15 to 25 dB of attenuation in Roon. I plan to move the stack to my desktop system at some point. When I do, I'll have at least 4.1 dB of attenuation in Roon (combination of volume leveling and Headroom management), but I'll use the knob on the PA5 for levels since it will always be within easy reach.

Looking at Adele 25, like a lot of pop albums, there's quite a lot of dynamic range compression. With a volume leveling target of -18LUFS, Roon is pulling levels down by 11.2 dB for the version on TIDAL and 11.4 dB for Qobuz. I assume the CD is similar. If you're sending this to the DAC with no attenuation, it certainly could reveal the presence of issues I've described above.

51369

Let us know if the distortion goes away when you use a gain structure that's more similar to mine. I'll be surprised if it does not. The low noise and distortion of these new Topping products enables them to deliver great detail and dynamics from low input signals, but that may come at the cost of not robustly handling hot signals as well as they could or should.
 
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NBPK402

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I also run the volume maxed on my PA5 and do not experience problems. I am running the stock ESS DAC in the Marantz AV8805A. I have not broke in the PA5 and have only had it a week or two, but it sounds great in comparison to my IcePower amps.

Def keep us posted as to what you find out with further listening, and DAC and amp switching
 

dhai

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Thanks for your responses, I'll try to run the dac less hot and will report by weeks end.

The PA5 input should not be a problem at less than 10W peak output to the horns, if
attenuation is done by passive input potentiometer. Have no circuit description.

Finally a mix with Dac4 into PA5 is another option, as well as E50 into the Sugden,
all balanced.
But: those bleached out harmonics don't sound like clipping, and are present at levels
below -10 dBFS. That sound reminds me on one of those first "cheap trick" classD amps,
a Tripath based Sonic Impact model, but indeed with better detail and dynamics.
 

dsnyder0cnn

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those bleached out harmonics don't sound like clipping, and are present at levels
below -10 dBFS. That sound reminds me on one of those first "cheap trick" classD amps,
a Tripath based Sonic Impact model, but indeed with better detail and dynamics.

Hard to say. Could also be that the Sugden has higher 2nd order harmonic distortion (thicker harmonics) than the PA5, and that's what you're used to hearing. That, or there's a quality-control issue with your particular PA5.
 

dhai

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Agreed, the Sugden may have higher steady state distortion than the Topping. It seems to sound "warmer".
No, it's not what I am used to hearing. I use many amplifiers and systems to check my loudspeakers with
(speaker manufacturing and room acoustics is what I'm living from). Some, like the Job 225 and careful
DIY designs around the LM3886 are of similar low HD characteristic.

Yesterday we had our second panel comparison: one visitor, a musician (piano, guitar), and 4 of us from
the Vienna Audio Labs group (music lovers, musicians, hifi fans, record collectors and audio engineers).
Some test files we had scaled down 4.5 dB as suggested (thanks) on an audio workstation.
They didn't seem to sound different to the originals, though.

Equipment as described in post #4. We had no exchange about my initial impressions.
To keep it short: one listener preferred the "overall presentation" of the E50/PA-5 with one classical track,
while mentioning it "distorted" more than Ear/Sugden. On the other tracks all listeners preferred the
Ear/Sugden. For rest of the evening, everyone decided to continue with Ear/Sugden.
This is in line with my previous experience, where visitors and my son didn't react positively
on the Topping combo, as opposed to usually joining me in listening sessions.

Trying to summarize my own impressions: Topping presents the music as a picture seen in bright neon
light, where some color shadings seem to be missing, but other details are crystal clear. Also, very wide,
but slightly recessed depth of image. Faint room reflexions in live recordings are missing, phantom sources
seem to be "cut out" of context (impression of "detailed" imaging). When the content gets complex,
"distortion" raises towards tiring levels (regardless of volume). Tendency to sound equal on differing tracks.

Please mind, the comparison is of course unfair, the Toppings are excellent for the money. I assume in
lower resolution systems many will probably enjoy them. Just sharing some inter-subjective impressions :)

With greetings from Vienna
David
 

dsnyder0cnn

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one listener preferred the "overall presentation" of the E50/PA-5 with one classical track, while mentioning it "distorted" more than Ear/Sugden.

Thanks for sharing part two of your subjective impressions. What still has me puzzled is that the PA5's measurements show less distortion than just about anything except for the Benchmark AHB2. Same for the E50 DAC (lower distortion than most DACs, regardless of price). So, I'm not sure where the distortion you're hearing is coming from. It's not a volume thing, apparently. Quite odd.

For those following along at home, this experience is not typical of the E50 + PA5 combo. There have been reliability issues with a few units, but I've yet to find anyone else who has complaints about sound quality.
 

dhai

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I have heard several amps with low measured HD/IMD specs that sounded constrained with complex signals, or were grainy or clearly less transparent than others, and therefore concluded that specs don't tell the whole story.
The resolution of TAD 2002 HF and proprietary midrange drivers is good enough to show such differences.

For me, ClassD fell into 2 camps: Early Sonic Impact, Devialet and Topping PA-5 as described above.
And Hypex (stopped at generation UCD): somehow cleaner HF, but less "obviously transparent", lacking dynamic resolution, transparency and subjective HF extention. Not yet tried the latest Hypex, though.
A nice inbetween, and appealing: old LC Audio modules (today's NewClassD probably interesting). Sounded very open and grainfree, but I didn't get rid of some noise (my fault with the DIY design) and destroyed one channel while tinkering (shame over me!) in order to compare with the PA-5.
What so far all ClassD amps I tried fail is to convincingly reproduce instrumental timbre. Coming from and surrounded by musicians, I enjoy life acoustical music, and this is my reference to achieve with reproduction equipment.

Being into speaker design and listening to records since 40 years, quite a few amps have passed. None, not even Kondo Ongaku KSL2 (I went into Hifi hornspeakers to enable Kondo and similar amps to perform better), seemed perfect. But none again as musically engaging and "realistic" as some Kondo (don't own one) and other (very few - many sound boring, or lack bandwidth, dynamics and bass control etc) tube amplifiers. Those few tube amps are my personal favorites, besides everyday power saving chipamp DIYs. The Sugden is a nice amp (not my own), fun to listen to with some loss of transparency.

But don't get me wrong: I like Paravicini stuff, which uses complex nested feedback circuits for tubes to reduce distortion. As a hobby I enjoy to modify those towards better sound, using better components.
Hence a confession: I believe not all resistors sound the same.

Taking all this into account, you can now relax and call me a distortion lover, not aquainted to "plain truth". I'd say just like life music and music production, reproduction is another kind of art.

Seems this is my late introduction into this nice forum. Sorry for the long text!
 

dhai

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Thank you, dsnyder0cnn.

Nice to watch different perspectives in all things audio.
I will continue looking over your shoulders upon AV,
and comment if applicable (not into video, using an old
Pioneer plasma - not even full HD).

I really appreciate the calm and friendly vibe!
 

ddude003

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You may be experiencing issues with the Adel recordings themselves... My guess is the Dynamic Range has been crushed err clipped somewhere along the way... Might be interesting to have a peek under the hood with something like iZotope RX9... The online DR Database at https://dr.loudness-war.info/album/view/166330 shows pretty poor Dynamic Range for the Adel 25 album... Min Track DR4 and Max Track DR8... And the Hello track being DR5...
 
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NBPK402

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Well, I ended up returning them...one of the main features i liked was dead silence with my K402s, and a few weeks after purchase...one of them developed significantly more hiss than the other and exceeded the hiss level of my Icepower amps. It was a shame to have to return, but after seeing others have the same problem develop 6 months later, they had to go.
 
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