Sub integration via miniDSP or AVR.

iamstubb

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I've used REW and miniDSP in my mobile audio setup for years and am very happy/blown away by the improvement in car audio. I am finally getting around to working on my home theater setup due to a failed pre-HDMI era Onkyo amp receiver, my wife winning a 65" TV at a drawing at work, and some house upgrades. Nothing real fancy here. I have Polk Monitor 70's, 50's and 40's and CS1 center for speakers supported by a PSW10 sub in a 13'x15' room. I have stereo equipment, and HTPC. Music quality is more important than home theater. I would like to use a miniDSP to employ sub integration crossover, PEQ and DIRAC for my 2.1 listening pleasure. Not so worried about HTPC and might go 5.1 to save space. Figuring out a configuration is a challenge. I like how my stereo sounds with a miniDSP2x4 integrating sub with a crossover quite low just to supplement the 70's (which reach to 40Hz nicely), and applying corrections. Currently I can go through my old receiver's multichannel input. Looking at new AVR's, I have to spend a fortune to get multichannel. So one answer is to use miniDSP2x4HD or DDRC-24 to apply corrections to my 2.1 material by running through the 2-channel in of a new receiver via the Aux or CD input, but I lose sub integration and have to go with the built in sub or AVR crossovers. I guess I can still apply filters to the sub signal but it seems messy and risky. Anyone experienced in using/testing these two solutions? I'd like to know how well sub EQ works when relying on built in crossovers in the sub or AVR versus miniDSP. Thanks for any advice, including that I am doing this all wrong.
 
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Sonnie

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You could use the sub xover and then use the xover in the miniDSP for the mains. I use 50Hz for music with my MartinLogan 15A, but I have separated my two-channel from my theater. I use a miniDSP SHD and switch between the two with a XLR switch... although I still run XLR cable from theater processor to the subs... and a separate cable from the SHD to the subs, because my subs have dual inputs. You could do the same, however, I've also have a DDRC-88BM that I've used with a processor in the past, running the mains and subs thru the DDRC.

I don't know that it would really matter how you get to where you want to be, as it all works together in the end.
 

iamstubb

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Thanks for the advice, it is helping me think of how to do this. I had forgotten about the dual inputs in my sub. I could take advantage of that. I wish they gave specs on the crossover types involved. In looking at a Denon AVR (X 1600, 2700,3700 H) they mention crossover frequency but not type. I think the Polk uses and LR 2nd order, but I can't confirm that. I suppose I would have to measure the results and work from there. I also thought I could potentially use the pre-out zone 2 or straight up pre out connections of an AVR to run to an external amp, latter case substituting the 2.1 of the AVR permanently. The SHD is my dream processor, but I will have to use the DDRC-24 for now. Seems serviceable. Based on the very big impact just using an old balanced 2X4 (wired for unbalanced) makes, it will be good until I get my next raise or hit the lotto and get those 15A's. Maybe something like the 3700 is good quality anyway and I needn't worry about external amp for 2.1. I also came across the NAD T758, but that doesn't look like a very good piece performance-wise.
 

Sonnie

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You can always experiment with the different options once you get your AVR.

I had an NAD T758... and it did a fine job as a processor. It's a little more limited with features than some others, but it did what I needed it to do. I upgraded to the NAD M17 processor about a year later.
 

JStewart

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I also came across the NAD T758, but that doesn't look like a very good piece performance-wise.

Also used a T758 as a processor for a couple years.
Zero issues with sound quality. In fact, in the 600+ pages of the AVS thread not a single complaint on how it sounded. Many compliments.

There is some discussion regarding the testing done at ASR towards the end of this thread


I would definitely not rule it out if it has the benefits and features you want and meets your budget.
 

Ian Eales

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Let the AVR receiver handles the sub XO interface. Current Audyssey is very good compared to a decade and more ago. Just size the center, mains and surrounds appropriately.

I use 2x miniDSP 2x4HD for music XO, but just feed the sub signal flat into the 2x Martin-Logan 800x and let the ML Perfect Bass Kit [PBK] and Anthem Room Correction [ARC] take care of taming the subs

In almost 20 years, I've just plugged the AVR into the LFE channel and let the AVR integrate with excellent results. I could make it different by measuring, but not appreciably better.

Subs for Music is a whole 'nother kettle of fish. Subterranean Homesick Blues gives some assistance for the musical realm.
 
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iamstubb

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Thanks for the great advice everyone! I have to budget and think this over a bit, but will report back. It does look like the NAD is a strong contender for music as a priority. I'll have to figure out if I can do anything better for the same or less cost, currently around $1500 for the 758. DIRAC is the most compelling thing here.
 

witwald

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I wish they gave specs on the crossover types involved.
That would be ideal, wouldn't it.
In looking at a Denon AVR (X 1600, 2700,3700 H) they mention crossover frequency but not type.
In general, the low-pass filters on an AVR will be 4th-order 24 dB/octave Linkwitz-Riley topology. The high-pass filters on an AVR, which are applied to the mains, are usually second-order 12 dB/octave Butterworth topology. This then is assumed to act on the natural 2nd-order or 4th-order roll-off of the main and surround speakers.

Although it would be highly preferable and not difficult for AVR manufacturers to specify what they are using, they generally don't do that.
 

Ian Eales

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RS Minimus 7
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TEAC LS-MC85
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Martin Logan 2x 800x
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Triamped Eminent Tech LFT-8b music.
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LG 65" OLED
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It shouldn't really matter as the calibration process handles or at least is supposed to handle the integration. In 20+ years of AVR / Sub integration, the calibration got it close enough using the LFE sub inputs regardless of the speaker conglomerations which at times could have been described as eclectic. :daydream:
 
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