REW showing different graph after importing an IR that has been exported from REW

Krunok

New Member
Thread Starter
Joined
Oct 27, 2018
Messages
51
I tried importing the IR which I exported from REW in WAV format and this is what I got. As the graphs are not identical I am probably doing something wrong, so please assist.

28821



REW file: https://ufile.io/e8u0q7f2
 

John Mulcahy

REW Author
Joined
Apr 3, 2017
Messages
7,315
Exported IRs do not include the effects of cal files, are you using cal files?
 

Krunok

New Member
Thread Starter
Joined
Oct 27, 2018
Messages
51
Exported IRs do not include the effects of cal files, are you using cal files?

I am, and you are right, that explains the difference.

I'm sure you had your reasons to make it this way but, as I'm using exported IR as an input to an EQ software I would certainly prefer it includes measurement correction from cal file. Can you maybe make that as an option?

Btw, IMHO opinion I'm not sure there is a need to display mic cal file together with the measurement by default. Speaking of the interface suggestions, I would also find handy if there would be "Clear all" button under "All SPL" tab sou I can easilly deselect all measurements and pink only the ones I need.
 

John Mulcahy

REW Author
Joined
Apr 3, 2017
Messages
7,315
I'm sure you had your reasons to make it this way but, as I'm using exported IR as an input to an EQ software I would certainly prefer it includes measurement correction from cal file. Can you maybe make that as an option?
There is a todo list item to offer an IR export including cal file effects. They are not included because cal files usually roll off at high and low frequencies and including their effect would consequently boost low and high frequency noise in the IR.
 

Krunok

New Member
Thread Starter
Joined
Oct 27, 2018
Messages
51
There is a todo list item to offer an IR export including cal file effects. They are not included because cal files usually roll off at high and low frequencies and including their effect would consequently boost low and high frequency noise in the IR.

This is how cal file of my UMIK-1 looks when put in correct scale. Although those corrections are not big I would still prefer to have them in exported IR as they contribute to precision of my measurement. In fact I would prefer mic cal correction to be applied to the measurements automatically in all cases otherwise they are IMO pointless. Also, as I already said, I don't really need mic cal curve to be displayed by default after taking a measurement if it would be applied to the measruements automatically, but in all variants, not only for the display but also for all other usage including export.

28839
 

John Mulcahy

REW Author
Joined
Apr 3, 2017
Messages
7,315
In fact I would prefer mic cal correction to be applied to the measurements automatically in all cases otherwise they are IMO pointless.
I don't understand that comment, since mic cal file are applied automatically to all frequency responses. If you find the measurements pointless don't use the software.

Also, as I already said, I don't really need mic cal curve to be displayed by default
The mic cal file is shown if the box for it is checked. If you don't want to see it, uncheck the box.
 

Krunok

New Member
Thread Starter
Joined
Oct 27, 2018
Messages
51
I don't understand that comment, since mic cal file are applied automatically to all frequency responses. If you find the measurements pointless don't use the software.

I'm sorry if I sounded rude, that was not my intention. My point was that mic cal indeed should be applied automatically to all measurements, incuding exported IR, or at least have it as an option.

The mic cal file is shown if the box for it is checked. If you don't want to see it, uncheck the box.

Mic cal box seems to be checked by default when REW is started so it is always shown when taking new measuremens. Maybe a better idea would be to have such behaviour configured in preferences so it can be turned off for users who don't need it.
 

John Mulcahy

REW Author
Joined
Apr 3, 2017
Messages
7,315
I'm sorry if I sounded rude, that was not my intention. My point was that mic cal indeed should be applied automatically to all measurements, incuding exported IR, or at least have it as an option.
Applying cal files to the impulse response has several issues. Cal files do not span DC to sample rate/2, so something needs to be done to fill in the gaps at each end. Simply stopping the corrections is not a good idea because discontinuities in the corrections (or even their slope) will create artefacts in the time domain. Cal files also do not often include phase, so a phase response needs to be generated to apply them to the IR. The options there are to assume zero phase, which means the phase and hence the final time domain result will no longer properly reflect the system magnitude response, or assume minimum phase, but generating that minimum phase response in turn requires the cal response to be extended across the full frequency range and the way that extension is done (including its slopes) will affect the phase result and hence the time domain is again affected. The extensions inevitably involve rolloffs which mean noise in the measurement is boosted correspondingly, it is easy for the IR to end up dominated by artificially boosted noise from the frequency extremes. A final issue is that cal files are not always of good quality, I have seen many that have variations which could not possibly reflect the response of the device they are supposedly calibrating. Not including cal file effects in the impulse response was a considered choice to avoid those issues and ensure the IR accurately reflects the complete system that was measured. It also makes it easier to change or remove cal files after the measurement has been made.

Mic cal box seems to be checked by default when REW is started so it is always shown when taking new measuremens. Maybe a better idea would be to have such behaviour configured in preferences so it can be turned off for users who don't need it.
The trace selections for all graphs are remembered for the next startup. If you uncheck the trace it will be unchecked the next time you start REW. If your trace selections are not being remembered there may be some issue with your installation preventing REW from saving preferences.
 

oliver

New Member
Joined
May 24, 2017
Messages
108
Location
Italy
Hi John,
I take the opportunity of your answer, to ask you if there is any specific option to make REW remember the deselected tracks at the next opening, I am on Mac OSX 10.13.6 with the latest REW build release and I am not able to make REW remember my selection.
I do not have any particular OSX setting.
Thanks,
Kind Regards
 

John Mulcahy

REW Author
Joined
Apr 3, 2017
Messages
7,315
I take the opportunity of your answer, to ask you if there is any specific option to make REW remember the deselected tracks at the next opening, I am on Mac OSX 10.13.6 with the latest REW build release and I am not able to make REW remember my selection.
No, selections should be remembered automatically. That might not happen if an error occurs while REW is closing. If there is an error it may be captured in the log files. The log files are in the user library folder, which no longer appears in Finder by default. To display it either browse to ~/Library/Logs or open your Home folder in Finder (Shift Command + H), select View > Show View Options then select the checkbox to show the library folder. A folder called REW has the logs, can just compress the whole folder and attach the zip file here and I'll check through it.
 

oliver

New Member
Joined
May 24, 2017
Messages
108
Location
Italy
Hi John,
here the logs.
for more information I would like to add that from what I remember even with previous versions REW has never memorized the deselected tracks.
Best Regards.
 

Attachments

  • logs.zip
    4.2 KB · Views: 5

John Mulcahy

REW Author
Joined
Apr 3, 2017
Messages
7,315
Nothing relevant in the logs. It is possible that on shutdown the JVM is being terminated before REW has finished saving its preferences, I'll try a different way of handling that in the next build to see if it helps.
 

John Mulcahy

REW Author
Joined
Apr 3, 2017
Messages
7,315
Oliver, are your other preferences being saved OK, such as your audio input and output selections?
 

oliver

New Member
Joined
May 24, 2017
Messages
108
Location
Italy
Oliver, are your other preferences being saved OK, such as your audio input and output selections?
Hi John,
sorry for my late reply, didn't see your post.
I have noticed that REW sometimes doesn't load my audio interface that is already plugged in and switched ON, and often my "use HW channel name" selection is revert back to "reset channel name" option. Also I do use a range for the measurement from 10 to 45K, and often this is revert back to 10-22.050 Hz. The voltage level is saved, as well as the Sample rate.
It seems that all the other preferences are saved.
 

John Mulcahy

REW Author
Joined
Apr 3, 2017
Messages
7,315
The soundcard-related values would get reset if the soundcard did not seem to be available, perhaps another application could access it exclusively? Not sure if that can occur on macOS. Another possibility might be the card having a different sample rate to the REW setting and resampling not being allowed in the OS, though again not sure that is something which could occur.
 

oliver

New Member
Joined
May 24, 2017
Messages
108
Location
Italy
Hi John,
the RME Fireface is set to 96K as in the REW setting.
Usually I do have different measurement software open at the same time when I take measurements, I do not think any of them use the audio interface exclusively. Anyway, not such a big problem, is just a simple matter of selecting the interface again.
instead I would like to bring to your attention that REW(latest build) still does not remember the tracks selected at the time of saving, when I reopen it all the tracks are selected again.
 

John Mulcahy

REW Author
Joined
Apr 3, 2017
Messages
7,315
instead I would like to bring to your attention that REW(latest build) still does not remember the tracks selected at the time of saving, when I reopen it all the tracks are selected again.
My macOS system seems to remember its settings OK, so I don't have any explanation for why that doesn't happen on your system. On macOS the startup preferences are stored in ~/Library/Preferences/com.apple.java.util.prefs.plist under a key called room eq wizard, all Java applications using the built-in preference management store preferences in that file under their own keys. It is worth checking that file from time to time in case some application is deleting it or removing the preferences stored in it.
 

oliver

New Member
Joined
May 24, 2017
Messages
108
Location
Italy
Hi John,
I have installed REW on a OSX guest account, so a clean account. No other programs were started except REW.
I have then opened a file and still the same behavior.
I have attached the plist file, in case you want to have a look at it.
Thank you.
 

Attachments

  • com.apple.java.util.prefs.plist.zip
    12.2 KB · Views: 7

oliver

New Member
Joined
May 24, 2017
Messages
108
Location
Italy
The graph is "All SPL" and the trace that was on was the first one, "Skeleton assembed"
 

John Mulcahy

REW Author
Joined
Apr 3, 2017
Messages
7,315
The All SPL graph, like the other overlay graphs, shows all the measurements that are loaded. Selections do not persist on those graphs because it wouldn't make sense to not show (for example) the first measurement in any set of measurements you happen to load.
 

oliver

New Member
Joined
May 24, 2017
Messages
108
Location
Italy
So in All SPL all the traces are shown every time, regardless the selection made, correct?
Thank you.
 

John Mulcahy

REW Author
Joined
Apr 3, 2017
Messages
7,315
Yes, any traces not selected on All SPL will be reselected on the next startup, the same applies for all the graphs in the Overlay window. They represent measurements and on the next startup a completely different set of measurements could be loaded. Selections are remembered for the graphs showing traces from individual measurements, so for example the phase trace could be unselected on the SPL & Phase graph and would remain unselected on the next startup.
 
Top Bottom