Pro-Ject Audio Turntable Owners Official Thread

[Travis Ballstadt]

Who else owns one of these stellar tables?

I've owned a red RM 1.3 with a Sumiko Pearl for several years, though recently, due to my clumsiness, it's developed a low-level hum similar to a ground hum, but only when the needle is in contact with an album. It would seem to me that a ground hum would be there regardless, so I'm confused. Long story short, I was replacing the cartridge and had a pliers mishap which resulted in the need for some soldering to the wiring that runs through the tonearm. It's never been the same.

So, while I've decided I'm probably going to have to send that out, last night I picked up a used ProJect Debut Carbon with an Ortofon Red 2M, also in red, and it has the upgraded acrylic platter and a Speed Box with it. My thought was I could use this while I send out my RM 1.3, and when it gets back I can decide which to keep long-term, and the Speed Box is compatible with both.

But I tell you what, I set this table up last night and was immediately blown away by how much deeper the soundstage is than the RM 1.3's. It may lack a little in bass response in comparison, but the soundstage was huge.

Both of these tables are running in my 2 channel setup, which consists of the table > Cambridge 651P phonostage > Jolida JD202BRC amp > B&W DM601S2 speakers.

 

[Grayson Dere]

thrillcat,
Thanks for the write-up. Do you think the deeper soundstage has to do with the cartridge differences more than anything else? I'd be interested in your opinion of the sound quality if you put the 2M Red on the RM 1.3.

 

[Travis Ballstadt]

You know, that's a really interesting question. The Ortofon is technically a lesser cartridge than the Sumiko Pearl.

My theory is that the primary differences are because of the carbon fiber tonearm and whatever the issue is with the RM 1.3 causing the hum. I want to get the hum taken care of before I do any 'testing'. And I've also had my eye on a Hana EL cartridge for several months, and I may just grab one of those and see what difference it makes.

Honestly, I've swapped out so much gear in a short time recently that it'll never be possible to nail down the exact improvements unless I get the RM 1.3 taken care of and then work backwards. The Jolida amp was new at Christmas. The Cambridge phono pre was new last fall. The RM has had the hum since last summer.

 

[Grayson Dere]

You know, that's a really interesting question. The Ortofon is technically a lesser cartridge than the Sumiko Pearl.

My theory is that the primary differences are because of the carbon fiber tonearm and whatever the issue is with the RM 1.3 causing the hum. I want to get the hum taken care of before I do any 'testing'. And I've also had my eye on a Hana EL cartridge for several months, and I may just grab one of those and see what difference it makes.

Honestly, I've swapped out so much gear in a short time recently that it'll never be possible to nail down the exact improvements unless I get the RM 1.3 taken care of and then work backwards. The Jolida amp was new at Christmas. The Cambridge phono pre was new last fall. The RM has had the hum since last summer.

That's what I found interesting...my older Pro-Ject Debut III came with a 2M Red and I found the sound to be a little rough/harsh with a soundstage that wasn't too deep. Perhaps your carbon tonearm is doing some wonders for that cart! : )

The Hana EL should be a vast improvement..I've heard and read nothing but high praise for it.

 

[Travis Ballstadt]

That's what I found interesting...my older Pro-Ject Debut III came with a 2M Red and I found the sound to be a little rough/harsh with a soundstage that wasn't too deep. Perhaps your carbon tonearm is doing some wonders for that cart! : )

The Hana EL should be a vast improvement..I've heard and read nothing but high praise for it.

Well, after further listening, I don't know that I'd say "rough/harsh", but it's definitely thinner. But still a pretty nice soundstage. It's clear. It lacks bottom end. It's not abrasive at all.

So on Friday I called up my guys at Needle Doctor and ordered the Hana EL, which should be here early this week.

 

[Grayson Dere]

It's possible the limiting factor on my Debut III / 2M Red setup was the vintage Dynakit Tube Phono preamp I used.

We can't wait to hear your thoughts on the Hana EL : )

 

[Travis Ballstadt]

The Hana EL arrived last night, but I also had to order a spacer to add a couple extra grams for VTF. Needle Doctor was hoping to include one, but apparently didn't have any in stock, so I had to order from eBay. Hopefully that will arrive soon so I can hear what it does for this Debut Carbon.

 

[Todd Anderson]

Wow... AWESOME setup ... and that red RM 1.3 is a work of art. Looks like you have a healthy collection of vinyl! Selling my collection off (about 16 years ago) was a MASSIVE mistake on my part.

 

[Travis Ballstadt]

Luckily, when I was offloading vinyl, I also had Laserdiscs, so I kept some of the better ones (already had to store that size anyway). I've bought a couple small collections, which can always be a good investment for the right collection.

The biggest thing, though, is that about 5 years ago, our student radio station on campus was losing their storage, which was floor to ceiling vinyl. They couldn't sell them, since they were given by the labels, so they set them all out in a venue for a week, and it was donation-based. Suggested donation was $1 for the first album and $.25 for each after that! I think I picked up about 300 albums that week. Most of the sleeves are shot, but the vinyl is all mint.

The RM 1.3 is a beaut.

 

[Todd Anderson]

Wow. That sounds like quite a score!

 

[Mark C Flick]

I have a Pro-Ject Debut Carbon (DC), piano black with Ortofon Red. Really like it but do not have much of a baseline to compare. Last record player was a mid '70's RCA console, prior to that was an old Kenwood KD something or other full auto direct drive and way back was a Soundesign and the first was little stand alone thing. I also still have the first LP I ever bought Van Halen (Van Halen), then again, I still have every LP I ever bought plus a few from my dad. One of these days I might even get the turntable up off the floor... Maybe.

 

[Travis Ballstadt]

I have a Pro-Ject Debut Carbon (DC), piano black with Ortofon Red. Really like it but do not have much of a baseline to compare.

How often do you listen, compared to other music sources?

 

[Mark C Flick]

I'd say 30%. Don't remember the last time I listened to a cassette or a CD. It's usually vinyl, Pandora or OTA radio.

 

[Travis Ballstadt]

I listen to Apple Music while I'm on the go - in the car, headphones, the gym, etc., but if I'm sitting down to listen to music, it's vinyl. It forces me to remain engaged, which I love. All the new 2ch gear recently, and I've been listening a lot.

I sold all my CDs over a decade ago, after ripping them all. I held onto about a dozen or two, but for the most part, they're gone. Even the discs I kept are buried in a box in the basement.

 

[Mark C Flick]

I still have a lot of CDs, but I must admit, I'm not exactly sure where they all are, couple in the truck, couple in the car, most in storage? I do know where all of my LPs are though.

 

[Mark C Flick]

Dean Martin, Nat King Cole, Hank Williams, Beatles, Bob Dylan, Miles Davis, Pink Floyd, Fleetwood Mac, etc. Gotta listen to 'em on vinyl.

 

[NBPK402]

I bought my wife the 1.3 last year in red too. I had it hooked up for a while before we moved into our current house, and i have to tell you my wife (for the first time since we have been together ) said that an item in my system sounded much better! I was shocked that she actually liked records better as she has never cared much (even though her father used to own a high end Audio store in Korea).

My last table was a Mitchell Gyrodec SE with a Sumiko modified SME IV or a V (I cannot remember which one but it had a trough on it) with a Sumiko Blue Point Special cartridge. I sold it in 2003, and have not had a table until I bought the new one. My system is dramatically different now as I used to have Martin Logan Sequels IIs, with the Classe DR6 preamp that was being used by all the reviewers, and a pair of Classe DR10 AMPS driven in mono. It sounded great! I will have to test out the table once we get the front channels made, and see how it sounds from memory from the old setup to the new setup. Just out of curiosity as I know I have no way to really know.

 

[NBPK402]

I listen to Apple Music while I'm on the go - in the car, headphones, the gym, etc., but if I'm sitting down to listen to music, it's vinyl. It forces me to remain engaged, which I love. All the new 2ch gear recently, and I've been listening a lot.

I sold all my CDs over a decade ago, after ripping them all. I held onto about a dozen or two, but for the most part, they're gone. Even the discs I kept are buried in a box in the basement.

I remember selling over 200 of my records to buy the new Denon CD player in 1981. I then got back in to records with Gyrodecs...with my first costing me $500 plus the Sumiko Blue Point Special, and the second one costing me about $2500 used (I took my Sumiko and installed it in the new one). When I sold the last one I sold all my records too (I used to have several hundred laserdiscs too With a Pioneer dual disc autoreverse laserdisc player too...sometimes I wish I had not sold that or the Laserdiscs).

 

[Travis Ballstadt]

When I sold the last one I sold all my records too (I used to have several hundred laserdiscs too With a Pioneer dual disc autoreverse laserdisc player too...sometimes I wish I had not sold that or the Laserdiscs).

I also have a Pioneer LaserDisc player and a handful of discs that I've hung onto, though I have loaded everything into a computer so I now have HD versions (I'm a video producer by trade, so I have the capability to do a quality HD upconversion while importing). A little tweaking of the color and saturation and they look pretty good. I only hung onto the stuff that was never released on any better formats. Pink Floyd's Delicate Sound of Thunder is probably the most notable title, though I still need to clean it up before I am done with that one. Most of the rest are all 80s hair bands and the movie Long Gone, which was fantastic.

 

[Travis Ballstadt]

I got the Hana EL mounted and aligned over the weekend. It sounds great, and it's opening up nicely as I continue to play more albums.

 

[NBPK402]

That is a moving coil cartridge isn't it...how does it compare to your other cartridges? What are you using for a step up preamp?

Is that the Lucite platter?

 

[Travis Ballstadt]

It is an MC. It sounded better right out of the box (Sumiko Pearl and Ortofon 2 Red comparisons), and I expect it to continue to open up over the next few weeks. The other two carts had a pretty good soundstage, but the Hana really seems to reveal a lot more detail and is more precise.

I'm using a Cambridge 651P for the preamp. Seems to be a pretty much perfect match for the output of the Hana EL.

Yes, the Debut Carbon has the acrylic platter. I picked this table up lightly used, and it came with the original platter and the acrylic, as well as the ProJect Speed Box. I haven't even tried the stock metal platter yet, as it's winter in Iowa, which means desert-level humidity. Static is a huge issue for the next few months. I'll probably try the stock platter this summer when we get to swamp-level humidity, as it's a good, heavy platter.

Iowa: the state of two seasons.
Shovel, and Swat.

 

[NBPK402]

I changed our stock mat to one of these...seems to be good, but we did not have a major static problem.

https://www.amazon.com/CoRkErY-Deco...coding=UTF8&psc=1&ref=ppx_pop_tab_ap_pd_title

 

[Grayson Dere]

I got the Hana EL mounted and aligned over the weekend. It sounds great, and it's opening up nicely as I continue to play more albums.

View attachment 11851 View attachment 11852

Hi thrillcat!

Just here to follow-up on your recent setup with the Hana EL. After about a month of break-in are you enjoying the sound even more? Have you made any more upgrades to your analog rig?

 

[Jack]

This is too cool, I still have a bunch of Laser Discs and Delicate Sound of Thunder remains in that bunch. I love that one as well as a colorized version of Metropolis with newer rock music used for the sound track. It is great.

I also have a Pioneer LaserDisc player and a handful of discs that I've hung onto, though I have loaded everything into a computer so I now have HD versions (I'm a video producer by trade, so I have the capability to do a quality HD upconversion while importing). A little tweaking of the color and saturation and they look pretty good. I only hung onto the stuff that was never released on any better formats. Pink Floyd's Delicate Sound of Thunder is probably the most notable title, though I still need to clean it up before I am done with that one. Most of the rest are all 80s hair bands and the movie Long Gone, which was fantastic.