Opinions on DIY amp kits?

[Grayson Dere]

Lately I've been curious to know if purchasing and building DIY amp/preamp kits are worth the time and money. I like the idea of smaller shops such as Transcendent Sound trying to push product to the kit building inclined audiophile (https://www.transcendentsound.com/index.html).

The question I have is are most of these kit based companies around just to satisfy modders and hobby builders or do they really give the large brands a serious competition, ie: PrimaLuna, VTL, etc...in terms of pure sound quality?

Thanks! : )

 

[ddude003]

I have not built any of these myself... And I have heard Bottlehead and First Watt Amps and Preamps... They sounded really sweet to my ears... I think they can give finished products a run for the money under the right build conditions and reasonably matched to the rest of a system...

 

[Grayson Dere]

I have not built any of these myself... And I have heard Bottlehead and First Watt Amps and Preamps... They sounded really sweet to my ears... I think they can give finished products a run for the money under the right build conditions and reasonably matched to the rest of a system...

Good to know at least they can sound very pleasant : )

 

[ddude003]

Good to know at least they can sound very pleasant : )

The only issue with DIY is quality control... And that is in your hands... ;^)

I would imagine a little tube goodness might make those Vandersteens really sing...

 

[Grayson Dere]

The only issue with DIY is quality control... And that is in your hands... ;^)

I would imagine a little tube goodness might make those Vandersteens really sing...

I think it's time I dust off my trusty old soldering iron...

 

[Matthew J Poes]

Have you ever built a tube amp before? If not, I would suggest considering a basic model. Some of the more complex models can be trickier to build and get up and running. Early in my DIY days I took on some tube projects that were just too much for me. Some of these amps use dangerously high voltages.

You also have to be extra careful with the wiring. Make sure to run them as they suggest and take great care. Not twisting them properly or running signal wires over heater wires can cause extra noise.

Other than those issues, you get a lot of performance for the money. Usually a good deal. Certainly can give the premade stuff a run. I built a 845 SET that I thought was better than a much more expensive 805 SET I had. The 845 was a kit and the 805 was premade.

 

[Grayson Dere]

Have you ever built a tube amp before? If not, I would suggest considering a basic model. Some of the more complex models can be trickier to build and get up and running. Early in my DIY days I took on some tube projects that were just too much for me. Some of these amps use dangerously high voltages.

You also have to be extra careful with the wiring. Make sure to run them as they suggest and take great care. Not twisting them properly or running signal wires over heater wires can cause extra noise.

Other than those issues, you get a lot of performance for the money. Usually a good deal. Certainly can give the premade stuff a run. I built a 845 SET that I thought was better than a much more expensive 805 SET I had. The 845 was a kit and the 805 was premade.

Thanks for your thoughts on the subject, Matthew. I have not built any type of amp before. Technically I only have soldering experience from a past product manufacturing facility that was unrelated to audio. Some of the things you mentioned like taking care with wiring to not cause extra noise I would have no idea about...do you think those types of details come with experience only or should well written manuals cover those basics? Good thing my father is a retired electrical engineer so I can ask him for some pointers if I come across strange hum, etc... : )

As for an excellent starter tube amp are there any brands you would recommend?

 

[Matthew J Poes]

Thanks for your thoughts on the subject, Matthew. I have not built any type of amp before. Technically I only have soldering experience from a past product manufacturing facility that was unrelated to audio. Some of the things you mentioned like taking care with wiring to not cause extra noise I would have no idea about...do you think those types of details come with experience only or should well written manuals cover those basics? Good thing my father is a retired electrical engineer so I can ask him for some pointers if I come across strange hum, etc... : )

As for an excellent starter tube amp are there any brands you would recommend?

The easiest will always be a basic SET. I would consider Bottlehead. Nothing I’ve seen is as complete or easy to build. It will be more limited in its utility because it will put out so little power. On the other hand, it will also be the most distinctly tube sounding. The reality is that a really good PP tube amp sounds like a solid state amp. Sure they tend to produce more even order harmonics than do the SS counterparts, but it’s not as extreme as with a SET.

I’m sure the instructions explain how to avoid problems well enough. Just remember that Tube amps are generally noisier than modern SS amps.

 

[Grayson Dere]

The easiest will always be a basic SET. I would consider Bottlehead. Nothing I’ve seen is as complete or easy to build. It will be more limited in its utility because it will put out so little power. On the other hand, it will also be the most distinctly tube sounding. The reality is that a really good PP tube amp sounds like a solid state amp. Sure they tend to produce more even order harmonics than do the SS counterparts, but it’s not as extreme as with a SET.

I’m sure the instructions explain how to avoid problems well enough. Just remember that Tube amps are generally noisier than modern SS amps.

Thanks, Matthew! I'll head over to the Bottlehead website and see what they have to offer.

 

[ddude003]

Grayson, do you intend to run this DIY amp with your Vandies? Consider their sensitivity and how that might work out with a low watt SET amp... Just something to keep in mind... And remember 2nd order harmonics (noise) is your friend... ;^) Tubes are highly linear without negative feedback and provide a wider dynamic range...

 

[Grayson Dere]

Grayson, do you intend to run this DIY amp with your Vandies? Consider their sensitivity and how that might work out with a low watt SET amp... Just something to keep in mind... And remember 2nd order harmonics (noise) is your friend... ;^) Tubes are highly linear without negative feedback and provide a wider dynamic range...

I was just thinking about that...the low watt SETs and how they would pair with the Vandersteens. I do like to listen at louder levels so maybe at this point I'll just do a preamp kit and let my Class D amp provide the power. Thanks!

 

[ddude003]

Grayson, I think you are on the right path... I run a tubed preamp and a solid state amplifier with my Martin Logan ESLs with exceptional results... Good luck in your endeavor and let us know how it goes...

 

[Grayson Dere]

Grayson, I think you are on the right path... I run a tubed preamp and a solid state amplifier with my Martin Logan ESLs with exceptional results... Good luck in your endeavor and let us know how it goes...

I most definitely will!

 

[Tom Obrien]

I have ordered the Bottlehead basic kit.
I’ve never assembled any electronic gear before but i just thought I’d give it a go.
Haven’t started of real good I scrambled the PDF download of the assembly instructions and I have asked if I could possibly have another download link (you only get one try).
Any suggestions for an electronic assembly tool kit and any guidance in general will be much appreciated.
Looking forward to the exercise (with a little apprehension)

 

[Grayson Dere]

Hi Tom!

That's great you posted here about your first time experience about to happen with the Bottlehead : )

Soldering skills will probably be one of the most important things to master when building an electronics kit. I've worked with the Hako brand in the past and it's excellent since you can adjust temperature digitally to your liking..I'm sure there's tons online about what temps you should be working with for different purposes. Once you settle on soldering equipment practice on old wires and connectors until you are confident in making clean joints.

If there is no soldering required then all I can suggest is taking your time while building and try to be as organized as possible to avoid frustration when hunting for various pieces : )

 

[AudioThesis]

The heart of a tube amp is in the transformer and this is where a good manufacturers amp will shine over DIY. This is even more important on SET and SEP amps. This is an area where MastersounD shines and is why I consider them strong values even though they aren’t cheap.

This is not to say you can’t get good sound out of kits but to answer the question on whether it competes with some of the big name brands. These kits will compete with some but fall short of many others.

 

[Grayson Dere]

The heart of a tube amp is in the transformer and this is where a good manufacturers amp will shine over DIY. This is even more important on SET and SEP amps. This is an area where MastersounD shines and is why I consider them strong values even though they aren’t cheap.

This is not to say you can’t get good sound out of kits but to answer the question on whether it competes with some of the big name brands. These kits will compete with some but fall short of many others.

Thank you for your thoughts on where kits can fall short in quality...the MastersounD products are very nice and yes, not cheap.

 

[ddude003]

I agree 100% with AudioThesis in that the transformer is one of the most important components of any amplifier... And for that matter, any Source and Preamplifier also... Power Supply Transformers and Output Stage Transformers... Exceptions being transformerless designs...

 

[Grayson Dere]

I agree 100% with AudioThesis in that the transformer is one of the most important components of any amplifier... And for that matter, any Source and Preamplifier also... Power Supply Transformers and Output Stage Transformers... Exceptions being transformerless designs...

I'm very interested to know what your thoughts are on the sound quality coming from tranformerless designs (OTL). Or is it not really a matter of sound quality but just quieter backgrounds/less noise?
Thanks!

 

[ddude003]

I'm very interested to know what your thoughts are on the sound quality coming from tranformerless designs (OTL). Or is it not really a matter of sound quality but just quieter backgrounds/less noise?
Thanks!

Tube Amplifiers that are a tranformerless designs (OTL) can sound better when they are of a quality circuit design and are implemented with quality and/or matched parts... Speaker matching synergy is very important in this case... Speakers are basically being driven directly from the power tubes... Tubes are highly linear without negative feedback and provide a wider dynamic range when well matched with speakers... Or can suffer if not well matched...

Transformers can and do add noise for various reasons... Thats why quality transformers are important in any design... So, to answer your questions, Tube OTL Amplifiers can sound better because of both circuit design and because transformer less...

 

[Grayson Dere]

Tube Amplifiers that are a tranformerless designs (OTL) can sound better when they are of a quality circuit design and are implemented with quality and/or matched parts... Speaker matching synergy is very important in this case... Speakers are basically being driven directly from the power tubes... Tubes are highly linear without negative feedback and provide a wider dynamic range when well matched with speakers... Or can suffer if not well matched...

Transformers can and do add noise for various reasons... Thats why quality transformers are important in any design... So, to answer your questions, Tube OTL Amplifiers can sound better because of both circuit design and because transformer less...

Thanks for the explanation, ddude003!