Need advice what would be the better layout.

[Jmaurer84]

Hello all, I’m using 2 subs in my theater layout and I’m new to the measurement game so I’m not sure which measurements are better with my limited knowledge. I have an Onkyo RZ-50. 1 sub is the new Klipsch RP-1200 and the other is a monolith 12”. Would the yellow graph with more energy but steeper dips EQ better or would the lower graph but flatter be best? These are the raw measurements with both firing during the measurement. The red graph has 1 sub phased at 180 degrees with 2ms of delay. The yellow is both at 0 degree phase with 8.7ms delay. I’m using Dirac live so I’ve been trying to understand how to tell what makes a graph better to eq than others as I move things around. Thank you for your help!

 

[JStewart]

?
How are the subs connected to the Onkyo? 1 output or 2?
Will you be using Dirac?
Can you post the REW .mdat with the measurements taken with an acoustic timing reference for each sub (phase set to zero)?

The response alone may not tell the whole story.

 

[Jmaurer84]

?
How are the subs connected to the Onkyo? 1 output or 2?
Will you be using Dirac?
Can you post the REW .mdat with the measurements taken with an acoustic timing reference for each sub (phase set to zero)?

The response alone may not tell the whole story.

Hello JStewart! In these measurements I have 1 sub out connected to a mini dsp for the delays and volume matching. I do plan on using Dirac as well.
I just did a quick run through and realized I labeled the measurements wrong. red was no delay and yellow was the 8.7 ms delay. all at 0 phase. when I flip the phase of any of the subs I lose everything below 35-40 hz. but I took some measurements with different delays. the interesting part is none of them actually lines up with the alignment tool in REW with those delays applied to both individual measurement. so that is interesting.

Thanks for your help with this! I'm trying to learn how to read all these types of graphs but there is lots of things out there to read on it. haha!

 

[JStewart]

I do plan on using Dirac

If you will be using Dirac with Dirac Live Bass Control then connect both subs to the miniDSP on subout 1 on the onkyo. Regular dirac does not work properly with the subs on separate outputs.

If your Onkyo can use DLBC and you can swing the added expense that will be money well spent.

I have 1 sub out connected to a mini dsp for the delays and volume matching.

Again, If no DLBC then connect both the MiniDSP

the interesting part is none of them actually lines up with the alignment tool in REW with those delays applied to both individual measurement. so that is interesting.

This is because none of the measurements have been taken with a timing reference so REW does not know the relative timing between them.
Can you take the measurements again with an acoustic timing reference? One measurement for each sub. Phase on subs to zero degrees. Delays on both processors (Onkyo and miniDSP) at 0 ms.

If you need a hand using acoustic timing reference for your measurements please let us know.

 

[Jmaurer84]

Yea unfortunately from everything I’m seeing Dirac live bass management isn’t compatible with the RZ50.

Yea I’d say I’m not sure what you’re meaning by timing reference. My assumption was them both at 0 but I must be incorrect. What is it or how do I do that?

 

[ddude003]

https://www.roomeqwizard.com/help/help_en-GB/html/makingmeasurements.html Timing reference is right here... Right hand side, three lines down...

 

[JStewart]

It'd be a good idea to read through the taking measurements section of the REW help file that ddude003 posted.

Using a timing reference means that REW will send a high frequency sweep to a speaker before the measurement starts. Use the same speaker for timing reference for all measurements. REW will then be able to accurately determine the start times for each measurement.
From the REW help file "Using a timing reference allows REW to eliminate the variable propagation delays within the computer and interface so that separate measurements have the same absolute timing."
What this means is your computer thinks it has more important things to do than take your measurement so the time between when you press the measurement button and sound starting at the speaker is not the same each time.

Since you have an AVR and since you already figured out how to get a signal to the sub channel, I'm assuming you have a laptop connected to it via HDMI so this will be easy. Just set the circled fields in this picture. Use any speaker other than the sub channel for the timing reference because the timing reference channel must be capable of producing high frequency sound. And, again, keep the reference speaker the same for all measurements.

When you press Start you'll hear the high frequency "chirp" and then the measurement will start, same as before.

Edit: And now that you have measurements with a timing reference the Alignment Tool will work.

 

[ddude003]

@JStewart... Lol... Did you just say RTFM?