Large room, multiple uses, wondering about speaker position and REW.

Boog1000

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51535


Hi. I have spent a couple of weeks exploring hi fi setup at home, and wanted to share some images and solicit people's thoughts. I'll share a couple more images under the text.

It's the main space in a 2 bedroom apartment. The current speaker position is not The One, just the last place we stopped moving them around last night.

The obvious thing would be to put the system down the far end of the room, on the left. Most of the furniture down there can be moved easily, but...

1) Moving the furniture around is a bit complicated, especially in a way which is somewhat symmetrical near the speakers.
2) The main orientation of the room as we use it is really the axis between the camera and the speakers. Kind of diagonal.
3) It's nice having the trees as the 'back wall'. For instance, we don't really sit on the sofa, we tend to lie on it looking out the window.

I've read a comments saying Mission Freedom 770 Mk V need to be very close to the back wall for bass, but that's not possible with this orientation. If you look closely the metal from the balcony sticks out.

Questions:

1) Do you think the room would likely sound much better with the speakers against the back wall on the left? Is it worth heaving things around to try?

2) How might you use REW to explore this situation? Would it just be a case of optimising the main listening space, and then accepting the imperfections in the other two?

3) Is there a third different setup / orientation which stands out to you as acoustically most likely to be the best, even if it would be a pain in the to organise the room around it?

51536


FWIW the 'main listening position' is currently sitting on the carpet, playing with the cats. Speaker stands / hi fi position etc are temporary. The exercise bike thing is on the way out.

51537

measurements in meters, sketch not to scale.
 
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Wayne A. Pflughaupt

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I've read a comments saying Mission Freedom 770 Mk V need to be very close to the back wall for bass, but that's not possible with this orientation. If you look closely the metal from the balcony sticks out.
Regardless of the speakers’ placement relative to the wall, reduced bass output is going to be an issue simply because of the size of the room.

Questions:

1) Do you think the room would likely sound much better with the speakers against the back wall on the left? Is it worth heaving things around to try?

2) How might you use REW to explore this situation? Would it just be a case of optimising the main listening space, and then accepting the imperfections in the other two?
If you mean the wall to the left of the windows, I definitely think that’s worth investigating. In order to “use REW to explore this situation,” its simply a matter of taking and comparing measurements with the speakers at both locations. Be curious to see what you find.

Regards,
Wayne
 

Boog1000

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Regardless of the speakers’ placement relative to the wall, reduced bass output is going to be an issue simply because of the size of the room.
Thanks. Do you mind if I ask a follow up question about sub placement?

The kitchen area (and in fact about 2/3 of the apartment from this point on) is raised about a foot above the floor. The ceiling in the apartment below is also lowered a similar amount. In other words, the sound proofing here is very good, and there are far fewer issues with bass travelling to neighbour downstairs.

Would you says it's theoretically possible to put a sub here, and experiment with timing / phase etc?
 

bowl_actually

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Thanks. Do you mind if I ask a follow up question about sub placement?

The kitchen area (and in fact about 2/3 of the apartment from this point on) is raised about a foot above the floor. The ceiling in the apartment below is also lowered a similar amount. In other words, the sound proofing here is very good, and there are far fewer issues with bass travelling to neighbour downstairs.

Would you says it's theoretically possible to put a sub here, and experiment with timing / phase etc?
Yes, in a room that size a sub would be a nice addition. That looks like a really cool room by the way!

Is this mostly for music? From the looks of it, I don't see a TV or surround setup, so I'm assuming it's mostly for music.

In that case, something like an HSU ULS-15 MK2 would be ideal, or for a bit cheaper/smaller something like an SVS SB-1000 sealed subs. The sealed subs won't play as loud, but are very accurate for music and smaller then their ported cousins. And it's not that they won't work for surround, it's just they don't have quite the output.

As for REW, what you would be looking at is two fold. First would be decay time and that won't really change much, if any, by changing the location of the speakers. With that high ceiling, all the different things in the room, etc., it might be fairly good already, but you can always improve it. A lower decay time is going to have a couple of different effects. It will make the sound seem less cluttered and also less bright. If you're decay time is too high, it'll be difficult to get the feeling of "good bass," even if you have a lot of bass. Decay times can be improved a number of ways, but would be nice to see what they are first. Second would be room modes which are in the low frequency region. With that room size, your Schroeder frequency is probably below 120 or 130 hz, So below those frequencies is where you are going to get significant changes by moving your speakers and your listening position,. For that reason, it may be better to purchase a Sub before you do any significant work on that as it will change and impact everything you do in that range.

I suggest going to https://amcoustics.com/tools/ and using the amroc tool to see what room modes you might have. You can't put in odd shaped rooms, so just estimate the length, width, height, and you'll get an idea of the room modes, the shroeder frequency, and some suggestions of what type of reverb times would be nice for your room.

gabo
 

Wayne A. Pflughaupt

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My AV System  
Preamp, Processor or Receiver
Yamaha RX-Z7 A/V Receiver (as pre-amp)
Main Amp
Yamaha RX-Z9 AV Receiver (as multichannel amp)
Universal / Blu-ray / CD Player
Pioneer BDP-23FD Blu Ray Player
Front Speakers
Canton Karat 920
Center Channel Speaker
Canton Karat 920
Front Wide Speakers
Realistic Minimus 7 (front EFX speakers)
Surround Speakers
Canton Plus D
Surround Back Speakers
Yamaha YDP2006 Digital Parametric EQ (front mains)
Front Height Speakers
Yamaha YDP2006 Digital Parametric EQ (surrounds)
Rear Height Speakers
Yamaha YDP2006 Digital Parametric EQ (sub)
Subwoofers
Hsu ULS-15 MKII
Other Speakers or Equipment
Adcom ACE-515 (for power management)
Video Display Device
Yamaha DT-2 (digital clock display)
Screen
Audio Control R130 Real Time Analyzer
Remote Control
Stock Yamaha Remote
Streaming Equipment
Pioneer PDP-6010FD 60" Plasma TV
Thanks. Do you mind if I ask a follow up question about sub placement?

The kitchen area (and in fact about 2/3 of the apartment from this point on) is raised about a foot above the floor. The ceiling in the apartment below is also lowered a similar amount. In other words, the sound proofing here is very good, and there are far fewer issues with bass travelling to neighbour downstairs.

Would you says it's theoretically possible to put a sub here, and experiment with timing / phase etc?
Assuming you’d be going with the speaker arrangement /location discussed in my previous post, the kitchen may be too far from the speakers to deliver a cohesive listening experience.

I’ve traditionally had the best luck locating subs in a corner with uninterrupted wall lengths in both directions. Often it will get you a peak in response, but it can be easily delt with via a parametric equalizer.

So, the first place I’d try it would be the corner at the glass window. If that doesn’t get a good measurement, try other options.

It’s hard to predict the soundproofing effects of the raised kitchen, but I don’t think I’d put much hope in it unless it was designed and built specifically for soundproofing. Soundproofing requires mass, and lots of it – typically construction with 2-3 layers of drywall for starters, or concrete base for flooring. If the platform is merely plywood construction, that’s not going to get it.

Regards,
Wayne
 

AudiocRaver

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You might want to review your priorities. Lying down on the couch looking out the window at the trees, clouds, etc, sounds great for relaxation and appreciating the world's beautiful gifts, but is not conducive to appreciating great music through a nice audio system. The only way you will ever hear decent soundstage and solid imaging, which in my experience is one of the most exciting and engaging aspects of the music listening experience, is sitting up facing the speakers. If you decide that lying down looking out the window is the priority, that is fine, it makes the other decisions a lot easer, and might save you some money on gear, too. I mean no disrespect, I am simply saying that your expectations for great sound might not be aligned with the importance of relaxing and appreciating that wonderful scenery.
 
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