$4-6K Processor w/Dirac Suggestions Please?

[goldmorgan]

I know I'm a late comer on this thread but have just discovered this site. Saw a youtube video on "Youthman" talking about the REW software use. Awesome review, much appreciated. I struggle with the cost of Storm Audio unit but sounds great. I'm dating myself, but I use to have a Fosgate unit that I absolutely loved, it had great separation on the 7 ch. system I have setup. I always hear content from all 7 ch. Then of course that unit got outdated and I went with the Marantz series of Pre-pro. It just never had that separation the Fosgate had. Then Lexicon came along and I heard Jim Fosgate helped them with the unit but at the time the cost was prohibitive for me so I stuck with the Marantz. That has since been outdated with the Atmos/DTX/Aura 3d so I went with the Arcam AV-40 which seems to be an upgrade from the existing Lexicon. It seems to perform better that the Marantz I had but some of it may just be the Dirac setup vs. older Audigy EQ. So..... is there a unit out there in that 4K to 6K cost that has great separation with Dirac that could be like the older Fosgate I had? I also want to add some height channels but my room has a slanted celling from 8ft to 20ft and its just about insane to add top speakers; would have to hang them from the ceiling, just crazy to do. Witchdoctor just above says good performance can be had from front/side/rear height speakers without being on the ceiling. I am going to explore that, but the Arcam setup isn't clear if it distinguishes them from top speakers. These other units seem to be much clearer in the setup. Any thoughts on the Arcam vs. other you have reviewed here? Any help is much appreciated.
Thank you,
Bob

 

[Travis Ballstadt]

Hi Bob, I moved this to a new thread to garner more attention and hopefully get you more responses. Welcome aboard!

 

[Sonnie Parker]

I can't compare it to the Arcam, but the Monolith HTP-1 is a very solid and bug free processor that a lot of owners are very happy with, and it has Dirac Live. The features are nearly exhaustive with it if 16 channels is sufficient for you.

 

[goldmorgan]

Thank you for the warm welcome! I love reading these boards and can't wait to use the REW S/W.

16 ch is sufficient I'm sure for myself. The Arcam has been buggy, I have updated its S/W many times. It has a good DAC but I have been a bit frustrated with it personally. I just want to make sure based on the vast community you have here any experience with something that performs like my older Fosgate did back in the day. Example, Disney Aladdin, the sound in some scenes circled around my room, and now with the new 4k disc and the Arcam, just doesn't cut it like my older unit. The Marantz was compressed, never was impressed with it. I have seen good reviews with your membership here on the Monolith HTP-1. Since the experience here has heard the HTP-1 as well as the more expensive Storm Audio & Trinnov; just wondering in a nut shell what is better? Noise floor, better EQ setup than Dirac, separation, or what. I'm just wanting to have the sound separation I had before where I actually hear sound from my back channels as well as improving my system with height speakers. As I said before, I can't really place celling speakers so heights are my next step. So sorry for the long text posts, just a bit frustrated.

 

[Sonnie Parker]

I believe the sound separation issue is due to the initial setup, and perhaps the Arcam was buggy in that respect... hard to say for sure. I know of no one that has had any issues with the HTP-1 performing as it should. That may not be what you like, but it as intended and as most people enjoy it. If you want to hear more from the rear channels, you always have the option of increasing the level of those speakers, however, it should be ambient and not extremely noticeable to begin with.

Here is more on the HTP-1: https://www.avnirvana.com/threads/monolith-htp-1-16-channel-processor.7745/

 

[Travis Ballstadt]

Just to throw out a couple things for you to look at...

There’s Emotiva, which had a very rocky rollout of their new line, but they do use Dirac, and they’re all in or below your budgeted amount. I honestly stopped paying attention, so I don’t know what shape their firmware is in at this point, one would think they have things relatively stable by this point, but....they’re not necessarily known for their software development...

Anthem also just released a new processor, with another higher-end version coming in the next several months. They have their own, highly-rated room correction system instead of Dirac. They seem to have a few issues to hammer out with the firmware yet, but have a better track record than Emotiva.

Personally, I dropped my previous generation Emotiva processor for Anthem’s previous generation processor and couldn’t be happier. No more of the quirks of the Emotiva, and I found Anthem’s room correction to be much simpler to use than Dirac, reaching a satisfying result in a couple hours as opposed to the months of fiddling I spent with Dirac on the Emo.

JBL also has a 16ch processor with Dirac, which also had some firmware issues, but has had some time to fix. Again, I haven’t closely followed the details, but it’s worth investigating if you’re in the market.

All things considered, I think new product firmware issues are here to stay, outside of Marantz/Denon, who have much higher operating budgets to maintain much larger software development teams. The primary things to consider is how quickly a manufacturer can address and fix the issues present at launch. There is a very pronounced difference in speed and communication during this process across the different brands.

 

[goldmorgan]

Awesome, thank you for your honest response. Yes, I guess I could crank up the back just a tad. Its funny, when I got into this game the processor reviews all talked about keeping voices in the center channel and the others in the sides and back; whos brand processor did that the best. I guess in the digital world, that isn't really an issue any more, heh. I did really notice that Dirac was a big improvement over the Audigy EQ so I want to stick with that or better. I can check, but I'm thinking the JBL is mostly the same as the Arcam since its based on Harmon group. Sounds like the HTP-1 may be my next try at it. What am i missing with the Storm Audio or Trinnov? What is this next big step in $ hand over to you? It is just better control over the whole EQ thing, better DACs, not sure what the significant increase is buying you.

The whole firmware thing, gah. I was worried about the Arcam, got bad reviews due to buggy software, but I thought the Harmon group backing and the quality of the DAC it uses would pull it through for me satisfaction wise. Its just unclear between the codecs (DTS, etc) on how it handles the speaker setups. My questions actually had them update their pamphlet on the Auro 3d. I guess no one ever challenged them on it until I did. It seems if I want to use the height speakers above my Left and Right I might not be able to use the back channels, both seem to use channels 6 & 7. The manual on the HTP-1 seems much clearer.

 

[Ty_Tanium]

I’m very interested in this thread as I’m planning on having my dedicated HT/Listening Room completed by the end of the year. It will have (has) 20 speakers and 4 subs (the speaker layout will support all 3 major formats) so I’d prefer something with a total of 24 channels. Unfortunately something with that kind of channel count is far beyond my budget so I’m looking to see what the best processor is in this price range, or even a little higher if it has more channels. At this point it looks like I’ll be playing musical chairs with the speaker cables and suffering with the calibration issues associated with doing that. I was considering the Emotiva for a while, mainly because I’ve heard from a few people that it sounds noticeably better than the Marantz and some of the others, and because it’s supposed to be channel expandable. The problems I have with it is what was mentioned above – really buggy, lacks quite a few bells and whistles compared the Marantz, and it has been at least 2 years since its’ release and still no expansion cards. I can’t help but think that part of it is just an advertising gimmick. It’s slid down towards the bottom of my choice list. I’m really glad to hear Anthem is going to be coming out with a more upscale model – I’ll keep my fingers crossed big time. I’m also considering the Monolyth as there are rumors that they’ll be adding DTS:X Pro. 2 big drawbacks for me on that one however is the lack of Imax Enhanced and no SACD inputs (ya, I’m one of those weirdos that really enjoy it). That may not be a big thing however as most every post I’ve read concerning Auro 3D says the up-mixer works extremely well for music. Well, I hope more people will be responding to this thread, I’ll be watching. Thanks for starting it.

 

[BigDan79]

I have the Emotiva XMC-2. It has some bugs. Getting the HDMI CEC working correctly is sometimes hard when you first set it up and there are snaps and pops when changing from Atmos to DTS with Loundness on. But, if you get the HDMI working right and you turn on loudness after the movie starts it sounds AMAZING. I know that Emotiva is working on getting these small issues resolved with firmware updates.
From what I have read the Monoprice HTP1 is bug free but I chose the Emotiva for how it looks in the rack, the price and how it was reviewed from a sound perspective.
If your main goal is bug free, Monoprice is probably your best bet. (I have heard other processors having bugs, not just the Emotiva.)
I can say that if sound quality is your major goal, you should take a serious look at Emotiva.

 

[goldmorgan]

Its funny you say that BigDan79, the Arcam also popped on eARC when changing codec modes but they fixed that in a few software patches back. Its not clear to me yet all is good though, I haven't seen ATMOS from Netflix yet when the content I am watching is suppose to be. I have heard about the Emotiva, I need to see what DAC's it uses.

Based on thrillcats input, I looked at the Anthem 90 reviews so far. It really sounds good and based on the reviews I have seen, it may have better separation, music quality than my Arcam. Unfortunately, you have to pay for that quality which is based on the DAC's they use and the other circuitry. But I am willing to do that. Going to see if the dealer will take my Arcam in trade.

 

[Todd Anderson]

I’m very interested in this thread as I’m planning on having my dedicated HT/Listening Room completed by the end of the year. It will have (has) 20 speakers and 4 subs (the speaker layout will support all 3 major formats) so I’d prefer something with a total of 24 channels. Unfortunately something with that kind of channel count is far beyond my budget so I’m looking to see what the best processor is in this price range, or even a little higher if it has more channels. At this point it looks like I’ll be playing musical chairs with the speaker cables and suffering with the calibration issues associated with doing that. I was considering the Emotiva for a while, mainly because I’ve heard from a few people that it sounds noticeably better than the Marantz and some of the others, and because it’s supposed to be channel expandable. The problems I have with it is what was mentioned above – really buggy, lacks quite a few bells and whistles compared the Marantz, and it has been at least 2 years since its’ release and still no expansion cards. I can’t help but think that part of it is just an advertising gimmick. It’s slid down towards the bottom of my choice list. I’m really glad to hear Anthem is going to be coming out with a more upscale model – I’ll keep my fingers crossed big time. I’m also considering the Monolyth as there are rumors that they’ll be adding DTS:X Pro. 2 big drawbacks for me on that one however is the lack of Imax Enhanced and no SACD inputs (ya, I’m one of those weirdos that really enjoy it). That may not be a big thing however as most every post I’ve read concerning Auro 3D says the up-mixer works extremely well for music. Well, I hope more people will be responding to this thread, I’ll be watching. Thanks for starting it.

The issue of saying you're expandable and actually issuing expansion updates is a big one. Unfortunately, not everyone has proven they are capable or willing to follow through on that kind of feature.

I really don't think you can go wrong with the Marantz. If I'm not mistaken, it has enough pre-outs that you set-up both Auro and Atmos arrangements and flip flop between the two, no? Just pay attention to HDMI 2.1 issues. I can't say this for sure, it sounds like chips that are experiencing issues might not be recoverable with a firmware update (again, not 100% sure on that).

If you have some time to wait on making a decision, I'd hold off on buying until later in the year. I'm not sure how COVID and parts shortages will affect things, but there's a chance something may pop up later this year. Of course, the danger in waiting is that gear might be hard to come by (in general). Manufacturers are getting squeezed on some of their more popular models!

 

[Ty_Tanium]

"The issue of saying you're expandable and actually issuing expansion updates is a big one. Unfortunately, not everyone has proven they are capable or willing to follow through on that kind of feature."

I fully agree with that and is why Emotiva doesn't appeal to me much. As far as I'm concerned, if they can't/won't deliver on their advertising, it's false advertising. Period. That means I can't trust them which is why I'm sure I won't be buying anything from them.

As far as the Marantz goes - I've done so much research on processors lately it's hard for me to keep everything straight. I'm pretty sure I read something that the HDMI issues will be cleared up with the release of the 8806. Apparently the parts supply issues are keeping Marantz from releasing it.

 

[Todd Anderson]

If they're sourcing new HDMI boards, the 8806 should be ok. It's the previously sourced Panasonic 2.1 boards that are causing the issue.

 

[Travis Ballstadt]

Its not clear to me yet all is good though, I haven't seen ATMOS from Netflix yet when the content I am watching is suppose to be.

If you’re using an AppleTV 4K for Netflix, the app has been broken for quite some time and doesn’t playback Atmos. I’ve started using the Shield for Netflix (have it primarily for PLEX) and Atmos works perfectly in Netflix. But 5.1 audio on the HBO Max app on the Shield is currently broken, everything plays as 2.0, except on the marquee titles each month, which playback in Atmos.

 

[Travis Ballstadt]

"The issue of saying you're expandable and actually issuing expansion updates is a big one. Unfortunately, not everyone has proven they are capable or willing to follow through on that kind of feature."

I fully agree with that and is why Emotiva doesn't appeal to me much. As far as I'm concerned, if they can't/won't deliver on their advertising, it's false advertising. Period. That means I can't trust them which is why I'm sure I won't be buying anything from them.

As far as the Marantz goes - I've done so much research on processors lately it's hard for me to keep everything straight. I'm pretty sure I read something that the HDMI issues will be cleared up with the release of the 8806. Apparently the parts supply issues are keeping Marantz from releasing it.

Once I got past the quirks on the Emotiva XMC1, the sound quality was great. The problem for me, and the reason I’m done with Emo, is that the same quirks existed for me with the UMC-1, UMC-200 and the XMC-1, and have carried through to the XMC-2 and RMC units. I’ve come to the conclusion that they are incapable of fixing the quirks I was experiencing (and I was not the only one).

My experience with Emotiva is that they release a processor with a ton of bugs, make slow improvements over time, and then announce the next line of processors without ever reaching 100% functionality.

 

[Ty_Tanium]

Although I’m not as familiar with Emotiva as you are, I’d have to agree with you based on what I’ve observed. Turning your customers into Beta testers and half-heartedly addressing multiple design problems after the fact seems like a particularly odd way to do business (not to mention the empty promises). I can’t help but think it’ll come back to bite ‘em in the long run. It's changed my view of them that's for sure.

 

[Omuracada]

I did a massive amount of research with all of the 16 channel pre amps and in the end (in my humble opinion) at some point i needed to commit to one and take advantage of the trial period all of these providers offer. I decided to pull the trigger on the XMC-2 with the intent to push it as much as I can to determine if I too experience the challenges I have read about specific to Emotiva. As of right now its been very plug and play and the only thing I have experienced is one time thus far it locked up on me and after a re-boot all was well and it has not locked up since. When I was setting up dirac the raspberry PI they sent me was not working. I called support got what I believe was a very intelligent person who quickly assisted me in making sure I received a new one. I received it in 3 days from that call. I chose this amp due to price, reviews and I specifically wanted a pre amp that used dirac. If in the the next two weeks I end up experiencing challenges that agitate me I will make the return and pay the uptick to try the Monolith HTP-1 out (again I want to stick with dirac for now) . I will say I was coming from Pioneer and this is my first endeavor into separates and was blown away on the sound quality I experience thus far!

 

[Sonnie Parker]

Very good information and thank you for sharing @Omuracada ... and welcome to AV NIRVANA.

 

[Ty_Tanium]

Keep us up to date. What amp(s) are you using with it?

 

[Omuracada]

I am currently using a emotiva XPA-7 Gen 3 and a Rotel RKB-8100. I am about to purchase a XPA-DR3 as I would like to put my LCR on it and then for the 7 channel keep my subs and surrounds on it and the rotel will continue to house my atmos speakers. I have my subs in a mindsp however I am still learning how to properly calibrate\use it(including learning REW)! I have not run dirac yet either as I read the manual and looked at a lot of guides. I still have a lot to learn however I am excited to get it all tuned up! I plan to try to get the minidsp tuned up this week and try a dirac calibration this weekend!!