Out of Phase Error with Yamaha 2070

jbasch99

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  1. If you followed my other thread you may know I was debating between a Yamaha Aventage and an Outlaw 976. I settled on the Yamaha. In setting it up I got an out of Phase error on one of my speakers and can't seem to resolve it. A bit about my set up. I got a Yamaha 2070. I use the Pre amp outs for the main 5 speakers and use the Yamaha amp for the Front Presence Speakers and Rear Presence speakers. My main 5 speakers are Martin Logan Electrostatic speakers. The fronts are Bi-Amped, the rears are Bi-wired. As I type this, I realize I could now bi-amp the rears as well using the yamaha amp but that is for another day What I am trying to determine is, if it's something in my setup that is causing the Out of Phase issue or a bad 2070.

    The speaker giving me the error is the one of the rear bi-wired speakers and the trouble maker is the one that does not have a wall behind it for the added reflection the electrostatic speaker craves. It's open to my dining area so the nearest back wall is maybe 15 feet farther than the other rear speaker. It's entirely possible this is what is causing the read error on the YPAO software and giving the out of phase error.

    Things I have done:
    1: switched black and red wires in all combinations for bi-wiring.
    2: Eliminated the bi-wire and only wired the top 1/2 of the speaker. Still got error in both wire configs.
    3: Installed a non-electrostatic speaker and re-tested with wires in both positions.

    Did not get the issue with the past set up and have not changed amp or interconnects.

    What I have not done.
    1: Run all new wire (seems overkill given it worked fine in the past)
    2: Have not changed amp or interconnect Maybe I should just swap left and right and see if the error flips speakers.
    3: Have not contacted Yamaha yet, thought I would try this forum first.

    I am also not sure of the real-world impact of a rear speaker being out of phase for movies. I'd prefer not to send this beast back for service if I don't have to as it would leave me w/o a receiver and the expense of sending it back would not be cheap.

    What say this forum?
    -Jeff
 

Todd Anderson

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I've had this happen with Audyssey a few times... actually seems to be random.

I know that some speakers have intentional phase reversals in the drivers. But since you're only experiencing this on one speaker, then it's gotta be something else. Could it be that internal wiring on that one speaker is in error?


You mention that the speaker in question doesn't have a wall behind it... does it have a wall directly beside it?

Any chance you can switch speakers? See if the error follows the speaker? I'd do that and also flip the amp input channels to see if the error follows.
 

jbasch99

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The speaker does have a wall right beside it. Which is the back wall of my family / theatre room.

I think I sort of tested the internal wiring on the speaker part as I pulled an old center channel out of storage (non electrostatic) and wired it in. Got the same error so unless it's out of phase because it's intended to be a center channel and used in the back of the room, I think I took the speaker out of the equation. That said, I clearly don't have the answers which is why I am here.

So I guess the next step is the interconnects and AMP. and then wiring.

So any ideas on what out of phase will actually do to sound quality / experience on a rear channel in a movie situation? I get how it might really mess with sound in a true two channel stereo set up.
 

Todd Anderson

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I'd definitely do a little testing first, just to make sure its not your gear. If you switch the two speakers and the error follows, then you know its the gear. I'd also try running YPAO with that speaker moved away from the wall... you might be getting a funky reflection that's messing with the results.


I'd be surprised if it were noticeably audible as a rear channel... you'd probably notice it in the front.
 

jbasch99

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Nice suggestion on moving it away from the wall. It's relatively easy even with these big speakers.

Thanks again.
 

Todd Anderson

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More  
Preamp, Processor or Receiver
StormAudio ISP.24 MK2
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Emotiva XPA-5
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Emotiva XPA Gen3 2.8 multichannel amp
Other Amp
Denon X8500H
Computer Audio
AudioEngine A2+
DAC
THX ONYX
Universal / Blu-ray / CD Player
Kaleidescape TERRA, OPPO UDP-203, Panasonic UB9000
Front Speakers
GoldenEar Technology Triton One.R
Center Channel Speaker
GoldenEar Technology SuperCenter Reference
Surround Speakers
SVS Ultra Surround
Surround Back Speakers
SVS Ultra Bookshelf
Front Height Speakers
SVS Prime Elevation x4 (Top Front, Top Mid-Front)
Rear Height Speakers
SVS Prime Elevation x4 (Top Middle, Top Rear)
Subwoofers
dual SVS SB16s + dual PSA XS30s
Other Speakers or Equipment
Behringer 1124p; Aura Bass Shaker Pros; SuperSub X
Video Display Device
JVC NX7
Screen
Seymour Screen Excellence, Enlightor NEO AT Screen
Streaming Equipment
iFi Audio Zen Blue
Streaming Subscriptions
Qobuz, TIDAL, Spotify, ROON
Other Equipment
LG Electronics 65-inch B6 OLED, Sony 65-inch X900F, ZeroSurge 8R15W x 2, ZeroSurge 2R15W x 2
See what happens and check back! ;-)
 

JStewart

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I've seen out of phase error messages with speaker on a couple of different Yamaha receivers (the last being an RX-A2030) when the speaker connections were correct and there was nothing wrong with the speaker.

I couldn't copy it from the pdf but on page 65 of the 3070 owners manual it basically says you can get the out of phase message even though everything is fine with the wiring and speaker. Of course it also suggests you check it to be sure too.
 
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