Need help with a setup concern on next tower purchase

danzilla31

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Okay fellas could use your expertise here. I have 3 options to go from for 3 new towers for my front 3.

3 SVS ultra towers, 3 Emotiva T2's, or 3 SVS prime pinnacles.

I'm reaaallly kind off leaning towards the Ultra Towers. But! This is where I need your help.

Here's a picture of the room

And with that picture here's the concerns.

Concern 1. If you look carefully there is tape where the towers are that is the best measuring spot in that room for towers. Slapped 3 different trios of towers in that room and each time its those spots they measure best in. 12 feet apart center tower equidistant in between the 2 all towers 2 feet off of the wall. My first concern is those low slung dual 8 inches on the ultra's I hear they need a lot of room to breathe is that enough room off of that wall? Because that wall can build up room gain pretty easy.

Concern 2. There is plenty of space with the prime tower as a center channel between the 2 AV racks. And there will be with an ultra tower there as well.

But! Will the Ultra tower in that center spot have issues with those side woofers interacting with those racks next to each side of it?

Now I've made sure the racks are about 2 inches behind the towers to avoid diffraction issues. But will the side woofers on the ultra's have issues in this setup?

If there are issues do you fellas have any other recommendations? With speakers or the other 2 suggestions I put up there.
Thank you for your thoughts and time

20181210_004748.jpg
 

Sonnie

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Those are no doubt all good options and can be setup to sound really good. I have owned the Ultra Towers and currently own the T2's. I would personally give the edge to the T2's, although when I had my Ultra Towers setup in my room, they sounded fabulous, which is why I would suggest you wouldn't go wrong with either.

I don't see how that setup can sound the best for music. Probably fine for movies, but for music I would start with the Cardas Speaker Setup recommendations and go from there. If it sounds the best for music, then it will be good on movies as well.
 

danzilla31

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Those are no doubt all good options and can be setup to sound really good. I have owned the Ultra Towers and currently own the T2's. I would personally give the edge to the T2's, although when I had my Ultra Towers setup in my room, they sounded fabulous, which is why I would suggest you wouldn't go wrong with either.

I don't see how that setup can sound the best for music. Probably fine for movies, but for music I would start with the Cardas Speaker Setup recommendations and go from there. If it sounds the best for music, then it will be good on movies as well.
Wow the T2's actually in your experience outperformed the Ultra's? That's saying a lot. It sounds like they both do well for you but to give that nod to a speaker half the cost of the Ultras is saying a lot

Do you mind me asking what areas the T2's for you gave it the edge over the Ultras?

Also I've heard the golden ear speakers with there ribbon tweeters for some reason I can't get myself to like them. Plus when I auditioned them against the SVS primes. I thought the Primes imaged as well but the dynamics were better so was bass extension and for some reason I wasn't feeling the golden ears highs others rave about them granted I was contrasting the 7's against the Primes not there flagship so that could be part of it.

Are the tweeters better on the T2's? The reason I'm asking is because Emotiva makes you pay return shipping. So if I pull the trigger on this Id better be sure going in. Not 100% but enough to take the risk.

Dang there's really only one way to find out is there? I guess since I have a feel for the Prime sound which will be voiced like the Ultras I'd get, so how do the tweeters and midrange on the T2's stack up against the Ultras? Your impressions there would be most helpful.

Thank you for your patience and help on this and thanks for the info on setup for music I'm primarily a theater guy but I do put music on at times. And all knowledge is greatly valued. I'll check out that link you sent me know.

P.S. I hope I'm not being a nuisance but I plan on getting 7 matching towers for my 7 base speakers so if I get this right I could flip the prime towers and get the Emotiva discount and really for a lot less then what Id pay for the Ultras have 7 T2's for the theater VS 3 ultra's and 4 prime towers for a lot more coin. That's why I'm trying to move carefully on this that's a lot of coin saved if I make the right call with the T2's

Thanks again!
 

danzilla31

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Those are no doubt all good options and can be setup to sound really good. I have owned the Ultra Towers and currently own the T2's. I would personally give the edge to the T2's, although when I had my Ultra Towers setup in my room, they sounded fabulous, which is why I would suggest you wouldn't go wrong with either.

I don't see how that setup can sound the best for music. Probably fine for movies, but for music I would start with the Cardas Speaker Setup recommendations and go from there. If it sounds the best for music, then it will be good on movies as well.
Hmmmmmm okay so I checked out the article you linked that had some excellent info thank you!

Your only seeing part of the room. It is a huge open area with open arched walls and everything flows wide open to everything that living room is open to 2 dining areas and the kitchen for a total of over 8500 cubic feet of volume size those speakers hit SPL's in.

So looking at what you sent me my best approach is a golden trapagon? I'll link you a couple pictures of the whole area so you can get a better feel of it. Maybe due to the openness it's why I'm getting away with everything sounding pretty well where I'm at. But like you stated if I can improve it heck I'm all ears! Lol

Thanks again here's the pics

20181229_164351.jpg
20181229_164343.jpg
20181210_004807.jpg
20181210_004831.jpg
20181225_191056.jpg
20180526_213215.jpg
 

danzilla31

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Also I'm planning on getting a new place in 3 years a bigger house with a dedicated theater room so even though I can get away with book shelves for my surrounds I'd rather just get the 7 matching towers now and then move the whole system I build here into the theater room I'll build over there. Which will be much better optimized for sound! A lot of compromises in this living room to get it sounding good to where it's at now. But I don't have room for a theater room in this house I will in the next one

Once again thanks for the help ANY insight info comments suggestions criticisms are all welcome from everyone! I want to learn how to make it even better and what I learn take to the next room I'll have
 

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Yeah... that is quite the room. I've not heard very many systems in a room that is that open. Most of what I've heard has been in closed up rooms. My main goal has always been to get the best imaging and sound stage... and depth acuity with placement, then use Dirac Live (or Audyssey in the past) to frequency balance the speakers to improve even more on SS&I. It's worth a shot at trying several placements... but typically getting the speakers out from the walls and into the room will help.

As for the speakers... I do believe the T2 had the edge in the high-end area, but that is not to say the Ultras were inferior. We are talking slight. The Ultras are still a wonderful speaker that I'd have no issue owning if I didn't have the itch to try out different speakers every year or so. I'm still a bigger fan of electrostatic speakers over anything else I've heard, but the Chane Cinema A5 and the Emotiva T2 have really gotten my attention for their price point. I'd be very curious to hear the new SVS Pinnacles as well, as the Primes are also another fine speaker that I thought with proper placement actually gave the Ultras a close run. There are not too many speakers I can't get to sound fairly respectable in my room, especially with Dirac Live, but there are some minor preferences I still have with some of them over others. Placement is the most important part of the listening environment in my opinion.
 

danzilla31

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Yeah... that is quite the room. I've not heard very many systems in a room that is that open. Most of what I've heard has been in closed up rooms. My main goal has always been to get the best imaging and sound stage... and depth acuity with placement, then use Dirac Live (or Audyssey in the past) to frequency balance the speakers to improve even more on SS&I. It's worth a shot at trying several placements... but typically getting the speakers out from the walls and into the room will help.

As for the speakers... I do believe the T2 had the edge in the high-end area, but that is not to say the Ultras were inferior. We are talking slight. The Ultras are still a wonderful speaker that I'd have no issue owning if I didn't have the itch to try out different speakers every year or so. I'm still a bigger fan of electrostatic speakers over anything else I've heard, but the Chane Cinema A5 and the Emotiva T2 have really gotten my attention for their price point. I'd be very curious to hear the new SVS Pinnacles as well, as the Primes are also another fine speaker that I thought with proper placement actually gave the Ultras a close run. There are not too many speakers I can't get to sound fairly respectable in my room, especially with Dirac Live, but there are some minor preferences I still have with some of them over others. Placement is the most important part of the listening environment in my opinion.
Yeah it's a beast of a room but honestly? After a lot of work dialing it in I'm surprised at how good it sounds.

Thanks a bunch for some great advice Sonnie. You've really given some good things to consider regarding the T2's And if the differences are razor thin which it sounds like they are I may just stay the course with the ultra's. Because I like my Primes a whole lot. Even in that less then optimal room they really do a lot of things very very well. I can only imagine what they could do in a better room.

Thanks again for all the help! Take care!
 

danzilla31

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Yeah... that is quite the room. I've not heard very many systems in a room that is that open. Most of what I've heard has been in closed up rooms. My main goal has always been to get the best imaging and sound stage... and depth acuity with placement, then use Dirac Live (or Audyssey in the past) to frequency balance the speakers to improve even more on SS&I. It's worth a shot at trying several placements... but typically getting the speakers out from the walls and into the room will help.

As for the speakers... I do believe the T2 had the edge in the high-end area, but that is not to say the Ultras were inferior. We are talking slight. The Ultras are still a wonderful speaker that I'd have no issue owning if I didn't have the itch to try out different speakers every year or so. I'm still a bigger fan of electrostatic speakers over anything else I've heard, but the Chane Cinema A5 and the Emotiva T2 have really gotten my attention for their price point. I'd be very curious to hear the new SVS Pinnacles as well, as the Primes are also another fine speaker that I thought with proper placement actually gave the Ultras a close run. There are not too many speakers I can't get to sound fairly respectable in my room, especially with Dirac Live, but there are some minor preferences I still have with some of them over others. Placement is the most important part of the listening environment in my opinion.
I believe you sure hit the nail right on placement placement and room interaction are 2 huge factors I never realized until I started to really learn when I started getting serious about this awesome hobby we all have
 

Todd Anderson

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@danzilla31 you need to create a showcase page for that room of yours. Looks great!

Sounds like Sonnie is giving you some good advice. In looking at your space, I don't think you'd have an issue with Ultra Tower in the center position. You have a lot of breathing room in there.

I've only heard the T2s in a show setting and it wasn't optimal. What Sonnie is referring to comes down to the difference between the Ultra's aluminum dome tweeter and the AMT tweeter on the T2. If you're like me, then you like a little more zing on the top end. That aluminum dome plays into that... In my experience, the AMT is a little more laid back. Some may call that more refined. Whatever you call it, it's just a tiny bit less sharp. Perhaps Sonnie would agree with that generalization.
 

danzilla31

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@danzilla31 you need to create a showcase page for that room of yours. Looks great!

Sounds like Sonnie is giving you some good advice. In looking at your space, I don't think you'd have an issue with Ultra Tower in the center position. You have a lot of breathing room in there.

I've only heard the T2s in a show setting and it wasn't optimal. What Sonnie is referring to comes down to the difference between the Ultra's aluminum dome tweeter and the AMT tweeter on the T2. If you're like me, then you like a little more zing on the top end. That aluminum dome plays into that... In my experience, the AMT is a little more laid back. Some may call that more refined. Whatever you call it, it's just a tiny bit less sharp. Perhaps Sonnie would agree with that generalization.
Hey thanks for the reply! I think your right I don't like fatiguing but I do like that touch of zing on the end I like a touch of brightness I've come to find. It's why I chose the Primes over the golden ear 7's and 5's.

They just came across too laid back so I think your spot on. If the AMT's on the T2's are more like that sound signature I'm not going to like them.

And thanks for that info on the Ultra in the center!

I promise as soon as I pick up the towers which should be inside the next 2 month's I will showcase the room for you guys!

I think it would be a cool way to show what you can do with a more generalized living room space. An open area like Sonnie mentioned that's not always the area we shoot for but it might be helpful for a person coming on this site who doesn't have a dedicated room to work in

Hopefully some of the lessons I learned could be beneficial to people in those type of scenarios

Thanks again!
 

Sonnie

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That aluminum dome plays into that... In my experience, the AMT is a little more laid back. Some may call that more refined. Whatever you call it, it's just a tiny bit less sharp. Perhaps Sonnie would agree with that generalization.
Yep... my precise thoughts. And whether you like one or the other is totally a preference. I don't think one will trump the other the same for everyone.

Seems like I remember the Ultras being very liberal in placement during one of our evaluations... doing well up closer to the wall, although depth acuity suffered a little bit.
 

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When we heard the Ultras at the show when they were introduced, the high end sounded like steel to me, not rough, not harsh, just HARD. Next time I heard them they sounded less so, much better. Third time I heard them, they sounded very nice. Was I imagining this? Turns out the designers had been tweaking the tweeter design all along. The practice is not unheard of.
 

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So if I was to buy speakers now the Ultras would be high on my list for choice for music if I did not have a sub. In my opinion the Ultras would do slightly better in your large space due to the higher output in the lower end. However the Emotivas are more efficient so less power is needed to drive them. It may simply come down to looks as to a choice.
 

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The Ultras definitely kick-it in the low end. And you can always plug the rear port if you want to tighten the roll-off (which I did).
 

danzilla31

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When we heard the Ultras at the show when they were introduced, the high end sounded like steel to me, not rough, not harsh, just HARD. Next time I heard them they sounded less so, much better. Third time I heard them, they sounded very nice. Was I imagining this? Turns out the designers had been tweaking the tweeter design all along. The practice is not unheard of.
I've always wondered if they would do that. Makes sense companies do so gauge people's reactions to what they hear make adjustments before the official release I bet that's why they are demoing the prime pinnacles right now but not releasing any info or release date yet. Probably making any final tweaks based on reactions.
 

danzilla31

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So if I was to buy speakers now the Ultras would be high on my list for choice for music if I did not have a sub. In my opinion the Ultras would do slightly better in your large space due to the higher output in the lower end. However the Emotivas are more efficient so less power is needed to drive them. It may simply come down to looks as to a choice.
I do like some music time so that's another reason I was interested in them home theater mostly but then if I want to sit back and do some music 2 channel listening well sit back run the front 2 ultra's full range and let them do there magic
 

danzilla31

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The Ultras definitely kick-it in the low end. And you can always plug the rear port if you want to tighten the roll-off (which I did).
That's probably gonna be necessary for me on that wall. I get a lot of room gain off of it that's why I had to find another spot in the room for the PB 4000's they were just killing it with room gain up there even using the app I couldn't get it all worked out it's only when I got them behind the other best measuring spot in the room behind the couches that I was able to get it worked out. Now they sound superb

But I bet those plugs will be necessary for the ultra's on that wall
 

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Vizio E550VL
Other Equipment
h/k TC35C/Ortofon Super OM10/Pro-Ject Phono Box S
I agree with the others, more ZING in the SVS treble, with the Emotiva AMT being laid back a bit more.

Neither is "better" than the other, it's strictly a preference-based judgment call.

Oh, yeah, niiiiice space, Dan! That would be a fitting Showcase addition. :T
 

danzilla31

Member
Thread Starter
Joined
Dec 9, 2017
Messages
77
My AV System  
Preamp, Processor or Receiver
Denon X4400H
Main Amp
2 Crown XLS Drive Core 1002
Additional Amp
Emotiva UPA-7
Front Speakers
SVS Prime Towers
Center Channel Speaker
SVS Prime Towers
Surround Speakers
Elan Theaterpointsthp650sl
Surround Back Speakers
Elan Theaterpointsthp650sl
Front Height Speakers
RSL C34E's
Rear Height Speakers
RSL C34E's
Subwoofers
DUAL SVS PB 4000's
Video Display Device
Projector
Screen
120 inch fixed frame custom built screen
I agree with the others, more ZING in the SVS treble, with the Emotiva AMT being laid back a bit more.

Neither is "better" than the other, it's strictly a preference-based judgment call.

Oh, yeah, niiiiice space, Dan! That would be a fitting Showcase addition. :T
Hey thanks for the compliments yeah that is becoming my ultimate man cave Lol. I promise as soon as figure out which direction I'm going and get the new towers in there I'll showcase it!
 
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