MDAT File and Pictures-Help do I need any treatment/which one ?

remi89

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GKF SPV-1000
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GKF SPV-1000
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GKF SPV-1000
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Klipsch RP-400M
Surround Back Speakers
Klipsch RP-400M
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B&W PV1
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Oray Cadre 16/9 CineFrame 200 x 112 cm
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Logitech Harmony Elite
Hello,
My home cinema is installed in a living room as you can see on the pictures with furnitures, door, window and no back wall.
At the moment, I have 3 GKF speaker at the front (High gain french speakers), 4 KLIPSH RP-400M as surround and an old version Sub BW PV-1.
I already asked help from the community in the "sub forum" and it seems that the conclusion is that I should firstly add some acoustics treatments to my room before upgrading anything else.
You'll find the MDAT files from REW joined to the subject so you can (please) analyse the situation and give me advices on what should I buy to treat what problem and what will be useless.
Thanks in advance and if you need more infos, don't hesitate to contact me.
 

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  • 15 mai 2020 7.1.mdat
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thothsong

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Probably hard to answer without knowing physical constraints. As an example, I'd remove that bench in front of the couch, and see if that improves the Center impulse response. Treating first reflections from Left and Right seems problematic given the layout. You have pretty long bass decay times, especially in the 50-90 Hz range, so large bass traps would seem to be in order, but I'm not sure you have places to put them. You have very long decay times below 35 Hz, but there's probably nothing you can really do about that.
 
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ddude003

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ThrowRug, SaddleBlankets, WideBand & Bass Traps...
Hi @remi89... Thank you for the photos and the .mdat file... It would be helpful if you filled out your profile to include your current kit... What is behind the curtain on the front wall, behind the screen? Any bass and wide band absorption would help... How about 4 of those GIK sound blocks absorbers, from the other thread, on the front wall scooted to the corners... A larger throw rug, including under the couch, covering that beautiful hard wood floor will help too... My rule of thumb is one quarter to one third of room surfaces, read walls, floor and ceiling, need some treatment... And to start, we make due with what we can work with... Even a simple stand of bamboo in the first reflection points can help... I see the .mdat file is from 2020? Maybe you could get a current left only, right only and sub only sweep and post the .mdat file...
 

remi89

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Thread Starter
Joined
Aug 17, 2019
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Location
France
More  
Preamp, Processor or Receiver
Denon AVR-X4400H
Main Amp
Emotiva XPA Gen 3
DAC
ifi
Universal / Blu-ray / CD Player
Sony
Front Speakers
GKF SPV-1000
Center Channel Speaker
GKF SPV-1000
Front Wide Speakers
GKF SPV-1000
Surround Speakers
Klipsch RP-400M
Surround Back Speakers
Klipsch RP-400M
Subwoofers
B&W PV1
Screen
Oray Cadre 16/9 CineFrame 200 x 112 cm
Remote Control
Logitech Harmony Elite
Thanks @thothsong & @ddude003 for your fast answer !
@thothsong I could probably put some bass trap on the left side of the screen but no way on the right so I don't know if the result would be even worse or not ? do you have advice ? for the first reflections, I thought to put some amovible panels like these: https://gikacoustics.fr/produits/panneau-acoustique-freestand-gobo/
It could help, right ? It's always better than the window ??
@ddude003, there is nothing behind the screen and the black curtain, just a white reflective wall :)
yep, I think about amovible blocks absorbers more and more for the first point of reflection but if you advice me to add more of them on the front wall, why not ?
There's already a large rug below the bench and a part of the couch and it was already a little challenge to find this size in my area. Did you notice it or is it not enough (you'll probably tell me there's never enough rug :):))
As I don't have a laptop, it's not a effortless process to run REW and nothing (either in my rack or my room) has changed since 2020.
 

ddude003

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Martin Logan Motion 4
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Martin Logan Motion 4 (yes, another set of these)
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Martin Logan Dynamo 700
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Cifte 12AU7 NOS & Genalex Gold Lion Tubes in Pre
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Samsung The Premiere LSP7T UST Laser Projector
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Elite Screens Aeon CLR3 0.8 Gain 103-inch
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PrimaLuna & Lumin iApp
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Netgear Nighthawk S8000 Streaming SwitchLumin U1 Mini Streamer/Transport
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QoBuz Studio Premier, Roon, Amazon Prime & Netflix
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ThrowRug, SaddleBlankets, WideBand & Bass Traps...
I have studied your photos and looked at your .mdat sweeps... It does not seem like you can place soffit traps in the corners, so my next suggestion is to place bass absorbers at the front wall as close to the corners as you can... Thicker is better, so those other block absorbers could go there... If you add wide band absorbers at the first reflection points, I would do that as a second step... Remember the floor and ceiling are also reflection points and the hardwood floor is most likely the worst... That is why I suggested a larger throw rug/carpet to cover more of the hardwood floor... Here is a link that can give you some ideas about where are the best places to put absorbers in a room... http://arqen.com/bass-traps-101/placement-guide/... Actually, there is a lot of information on that website that will help you...
 
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thothsong

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I'm confused that you reference a window about first reflections? First reflections on the sides look to me to be more like the radiator and a bookcase. Have you tried finding them with a mirror or string? I'm an amateur with only experience in my own room, but to be pessimistic, I don't know that you have enough space in the right places for room treatments to make a substantial difference.
 

remi89

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Denon AVR-X4400H
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Emotiva XPA Gen 3
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ifi
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Sony
Front Speakers
GKF SPV-1000
Center Channel Speaker
GKF SPV-1000
Front Wide Speakers
GKF SPV-1000
Surround Speakers
Klipsch RP-400M
Surround Back Speakers
Klipsch RP-400M
Subwoofers
B&W PV1
Screen
Oray Cadre 16/9 CineFrame 200 x 112 cm
Remote Control
Logitech Harmony Elite
Ah @thothsong .. another POV that will not make my life easier :)
as I'm single, it's not an easy task to check the mirror trick but I would say that the first reflection should be effectively just before the window and on the first bookcase that I try to empty and perhaps put away.
I'm lost as many of us I suppose because @ddude003 seems sure that some treatment should help and you're not; and I'm in the middle with no way to test before buying I think.
@ddude003 , what do you think of the arguments of thotsong ?
 

thothsong

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I guess I'm blind, as I don't see any window in your photos, only the glass doors. String and painters tape can work as well as a mirror. Do you have heavy blankets that you can hang over the bookcase or radiator? That might give you a reasonable indication of whether it will help. But of course you'll need access to a PC to run REW.
 

ddude003

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Yamaha RX-A850 Pro (the other 5 channels lol)
Computer Audio
MacBook Pro, Custom i7 7700k De-lid 2xAsus1080ti GFX build, Audirvana+, LiquidSonics, SoX
DAC
Chord Electronics Ltd. Qutest
Universal / Blu-ray / CD Player
Sony UBP-X700 /M Ultra HD 4K HDR & PS5
Front Speakers
Martin Logan ElectroMotion ESL
Center Channel Speaker
Martin Logan Motion C2
Surround Speakers
Martin Logan Motion 4
Surround Back Speakers
Martin Logan Motion 4 (yes, another set of these)
Subwoofers
Martin Logan Dynamo 700
Other Speakers or Equipment
Cifte 12AU7 NOS & Genalex Gold Lion Tubes in Pre
Video Display Device
Samsung The Premiere LSP7T UST Laser Projector
Screen
Elite Screens Aeon CLR3 0.8 Gain 103-inch
Remote Control
PrimaLuna & Lumin iApp
Streaming Equipment
Netgear Nighthawk S8000 Streaming SwitchLumin U1 Mini Streamer/Transport
Streaming Subscriptions
QoBuz Studio Premier, Roon, Amazon Prime & Netflix
Other Equipment
ThrowRug, SaddleBlankets, WideBand & Bass Traps...
I don't think there is anything to argue about... As I said above, as a first step, bass absorbers on the front wall as close to the corners as possible... And the floor... I don't know why your so focused on first reflection points... And sure, any absorption will help... In my opinion it seems the least of your worries... BTW, did you review the Argen link? Notice the sequence of the most important places to treat?

I agree with putting some heavy blankets, beach towels, laundry basket full of clothes to see if it makes much difference to your ears... The bookcase and radiator seem like natural diffusers...
 
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remi89

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Aug 17, 2019
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Location
France
More  
Preamp, Processor or Receiver
Denon AVR-X4400H
Main Amp
Emotiva XPA Gen 3
DAC
ifi
Universal / Blu-ray / CD Player
Sony
Front Speakers
GKF SPV-1000
Center Channel Speaker
GKF SPV-1000
Front Wide Speakers
GKF SPV-1000
Surround Speakers
Klipsch RP-400M
Surround Back Speakers
Klipsch RP-400M
Subwoofers
B&W PV1
Screen
Oray Cadre 16/9 CineFrame 200 x 112 cm
Remote Control
Logitech Harmony Elite
Yeah, I see...
First the bass treatment in any corner (or neer in my case) and then the first reflection point if needed.
Thanks, I'll search for products deliverable in my area that follow your advice:"my next suggestion is to place bass absorbers at the front wall as close to the corners as you can... Thicker is better, so those other block absorbers could go there... If you add wide band absorbers at the first reflection points, I would do that as a second step..."
I'll let you informed when it will be done.
Thanks a lot !!!
 
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ddude003

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Joined
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Location
Somewhere Northeast of Kansas City Missouri
More  
Preamp, Processor or Receiver
PrimaLuna Dialogue Premium TubePre (2 channel+sub)
Main Amp
McIntosh MC152 SS Amp (2 channel)
Additional Amp
Yamaha RX-A850 Pro (the other 5 channels lol)
Computer Audio
MacBook Pro, Custom i7 7700k De-lid 2xAsus1080ti GFX build, Audirvana+, LiquidSonics, SoX
DAC
Chord Electronics Ltd. Qutest
Universal / Blu-ray / CD Player
Sony UBP-X700 /M Ultra HD 4K HDR & PS5
Front Speakers
Martin Logan ElectroMotion ESL
Center Channel Speaker
Martin Logan Motion C2
Surround Speakers
Martin Logan Motion 4
Surround Back Speakers
Martin Logan Motion 4 (yes, another set of these)
Subwoofers
Martin Logan Dynamo 700
Other Speakers or Equipment
Cifte 12AU7 NOS & Genalex Gold Lion Tubes in Pre
Video Display Device
Samsung The Premiere LSP7T UST Laser Projector
Screen
Elite Screens Aeon CLR3 0.8 Gain 103-inch
Remote Control
PrimaLuna & Lumin iApp
Streaming Equipment
Netgear Nighthawk S8000 Streaming SwitchLumin U1 Mini Streamer/Transport
Streaming Subscriptions
QoBuz Studio Premier, Roon, Amazon Prime & Netflix
Other Equipment
ThrowRug, SaddleBlankets, WideBand & Bass Traps...
In "small rooms" aka residential rooms, bass is always the first issue to attack... In a "small room" the floor is your first reflection point... The next question is, do you wide band absorb or diffuse at your left and right reflection points... There is plenty of research information regarding "small room" acoustics available in the public domain via google if you are so inclined...
 
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