Let’s talk about SACD

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How many of you still use or buy SACD’s?
I still play mine thru my OPPO 203 and still check eBay for any deals. In this streaming world we now live in is something anyone still drags out and plays. I love the format and wish it was still relevant. Oh, and if anyone has Beck-Sea Change I would love to score one.
 

Matthew J Poes

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How many of you still use or buy SACD’s?
I still play mine thru my OPPO 203 and still check eBay for any deals. In this streaming world we now live in is something anyone still drags out and plays. I love the format and wish it was still relevant. Oh, and if anyone has Beck-Sea Change I would love to score one.

I have them and play them if I am interested in that particular album. In general I listen to either downloads or streaming, with Tidal being my main source of music.

I’m kind of agnostic in the HD audio topic. I go back and forth. On one hand there are some fantastic sounding new HD albums out there. On the other hand, the quality of research supporting audible differences is limited. We have one set of studies that once put through a meta-analysis supported the notion that we can hear the differences in high sampling rate music. However the conditions under which that conclusion is true is exceedingly rare and that set of studies did. It test preferences. We can hear differences but not like it. What if extending the sampling frequency is only adding audible noise that makes it sound worse. It seems that we need significantly more research to understand if this is audible, why it’s audible, if we prefer it, and what we prefer about it. The same is true for bit rate, where there exists even less research.

In the mean time, I prefer to spend my time simply enjoying the massive catalogue of music that exists in our society today and my ability to access so much of it so effortlessly in a manner that is not substantially compromising sound quality or enjoyment.
 
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Yea, I went off the deep end a few years ago buying albums from HD-tracks. I still run them from my iPhone through a Dragonfly dac, but it’s proably overkill. Lately I just use Spotify 80% of the time.
 

Matthew J Poes

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Yea, I went off the deep end a few years ago buying albums from HD-tracks. I still run them from my iPhone through a Dragonfly dac, but it’s proably overkill. Lately I just use Spotify 80% of the time.

Have you tried TIDAL HiFi. My own testing showed it to be audibly superior to Spotify. Not all music is audibly different but for me it was enough to make me spend more and make the switch.

Interestingly enough, the track most people could hear the difference in was Paradise City by Guns and Roses. In my room, using a single blind test but with no indication from me of the switch (I said nothing), people guessed the switch between 80 and 100% of the time and in favor of Tidal. Looking at the output of the two, Spotify was dynamicly compressed on the tracks people heard the most difference. The tracks were supposed to be from the same source.
 

Todd Anderson

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I have a few SACDs on hand. I can't honestly say that I've found them to be noticeably better than regular CDs. I have several of the same albums on both SACD and CD... I just can't hear an immediate difference.

I have both TIDAL and Spotify. I purely have TIDAL for streaming in my home theater (because, otherwise, I can't hear a lick of difference between the two)... but during the last 3 or 4 months, I've become increasingly frustrated with the TIDAL app. It goes through periods where it simply freezes on my iphone X (which appears to be common, based on a google search). I'm not sure if I'll finish out this year as a TIDAL subscriber.
 

Matthew J Poes

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I have a few SACDs on hand. I can't honestly say that I've found them to be noticeably better than regular CDs. I have several of the same albums on both SACD and CD... I just can't hear an immediate difference.

I have both TIDAL and Spotify. I purely have TIDAL for streaming in my home theater (because, otherwise, I can't hear a lick of difference between the two)... but during the last 3 or 4 months, I've become increasingly frustrated with the TIDAL app. It goes through periods where it simply freezes on my iphone X (which appears to be common, based on a google search). I'm not sure if I'll finish out this year as a TIDAL subscriber.

Hey Todd. Is it an iPhone X compatibility issue? I’ve never had the Tidal app freeze up on me. Are you using HEOS to use Tidal on your receiver?
 
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Have you tried TIDAL HiFi. My own testing showed it to be audibly superior to Spotify. Not all music is audibly different but for me it was enough to make me spend more and make the switch.

Interestingly enough, the track most people could hear the difference in was Paradise City by Guns and Roses. In my room, using a single blind test but with no indication from me of the switch (I said nothing), people guessed the switch between 80 and 100% of the time and in favor of Tidal. Looking at the output of the two, Spotify was dynamicly compressed on the tracks people heard the most difference. The tracks were supposed to be from the same source.
I tried Tidal back in the day but ultimately switch because of price. I haven’t price checked in a while so I’m not sure if it’s cheaper now.
 

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Somehow I totally missed the SACD bandwagon. I bought CDs for a very long time and then got into vinyl playback about a decade ago for the supposedly higher quality sound.
Now I also stream using a trial of Qobuz. I'd like to hear what others on this forum are saying about the sound quality from Qobuz...I think it's fantastic but somehow I think my CDs of the same
albums have more dynamic range to them. I know they're different masters most likely but nevertheless a fun exercise to compare : )
 

Matthew J Poes

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Somehow I totally missed the SACD bandwagon. I bought CDs for a very long time and then got into vinyl playback about a decade ago for the supposedly higher quality sound.
Now I also stream using a trial of Qobuz. I'd like to hear what others on this forum are saying about the sound quality from Qobuz...I think it's fantastic but somehow I think my CDs of the same
albums have more dynamic range to them. I know they're different masters most likely but nevertheless a fun exercise to compare : )

I should sign up. I haven’t tried it.

Check the master carefully. I didn’t realize how dramatically different the dynamic range was between releases. Basically any album that was remastered was made “louder” and the more recent the remaster, the worse it is. I checked a bunch of versions of MJ’s thriller to see what different versions sounded like. Each remaster of the album was worse than the last.

I also found most people preferred the louder version and misinterpreted the louder for more dynamics. I suppose that is why it’s done.

Todd also thought his CD’s sounded better than Tidal. I haven’t had that experience and certainly it shouldn’t be that way. Tidal HiFi is lossless Flac at CD quality meaning it’s the equal or the CD. Any difference can only be attributed to some kind of processing of the master for Tidal. It’s possible but I haven’t heard of that. I only ever tested that MJ album and the original cd on Tidal was the same as my original CD.
 

Matthew J Poes

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I tried Tidal back in the day but ultimately switch because of price. I haven’t price checked in a while so I’m not sure if it’s cheaper now.

Tidal HiFi is more expensive because of the higher quality. They offer a lossy level equal to Spotify for the same price. No point in doing that though. Even I’ll admit that Spotify is a better app and has more songs. I just need CD quality and do Spotify is not for me.
 

Kal Rubinson

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Somehow I totally missed the SACD bandwagon. ....................................................................................................Now I also stream using a trial of Qobuz. I'd like to hear what others on this forum are saying about the sound quality from Qobuz...
I agree.
I think it's fantastic but somehow I think my CDs of the same albums have more dynamic range to them. I know they're different masters most likely but nevertheless a fun exercise to compare : )
And what has this to do with SACD?
 

Grayson Dere

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I should sign up. I haven’t tried it.

Check the master carefully. I didn’t realize how dramatically different the dynamic range was between releases. Basically any album that was remastered was made “louder” and the more recent the remaster, the worse it is. I checked a bunch of versions of MJ’s thriller to see what different versions sounded like. Each remaster of the album was worse than the last.

I also found most people preferred the louder version and misinterpreted the louder for more dynamics. I suppose that is why it’s done.

Todd also thought his CD’s sounded better than Tidal. I haven’t had that experience and certainly it shouldn’t be that way. Tidal HiFi is lossless Flac at CD quality meaning it’s the equal or the CD. Any difference can only be attributed to some kind of processing of the master for Tidal. It’s possible but I haven’t heard of that. I only ever tested that MJ album and the original cd on Tidal was the same as my original CD.


I'm interested in listening to earlier released albums now : ) I find it poor taste that remasters would be made to actually sound worse due to the loudness wars. I'll be careful that I don't fall victim to 'louder is better.'
 

Grayson Dere

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I agree.
And what has this to do with SACD?

Oh, it was just a comment on my listening opinion on Qobuz vs. what I've experienced with CDs. I totally missed out on SACD listening, unfortunately : P
 

Matthew J Poes

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I agree.
And what has this to do with SACD?

I think i steered everyone off topic by mentioning my focus on Tidal these days.

Your presence reminded me that one of the main virtues of SACD was actually multichannel. That is a big plus in my book, though i get that through downloads by and large.

I still find a lot of the multichannel SACD mixes I have strange. It’s not a format issue, it’s an engineering issue. Rather than using it to create a more realistic presentation that encodes the spaciousness and envelopment of the “real” event, they used it to add effects.
 
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Dark side of the Moon really shines in multi-channel.
 

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Kal Rubinson

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I still find a lot of the multichannel SACD mixes I have strange. It’s not a format issue, it’s an engineering issue. Rather than using it to create a more realistic presentation that encodes the spaciousness and envelopment of the “real” event, they used it to add effects.
That wide range of treatment is more common in non-classical, non-jazz recordings and can result in great experiences as well as strange and puzzling ones.
Dark side of the Moon really shines in multi-channel.
QED!
 

Matthew J Poes

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That wide range of treatment is more common in non-classical, non-jazz recordings and can result in great experiences as well as strange and puzzling ones.

Yes precisely. I don’t disagree. dark side of the moon, The Beatles Love album, and a stones album I have on SACD all use the surrounds more for effect than spaciousness but I find them enjoyable. Some others get weird. Pianos and drums floating around the room in very unnatural ways.

I have a few large symphony recordings that took the conductor point of view and I didn’t like that. It just isn’t what I’m used to. There was too much direct sound and the stage was too wide. It did a great job of recreating what it might be like to be the conductor, but since I have a real standin for what those recordings should be like, it’s what my brain expects.

David Greisinger has a great feel for what this should be like. I wish he had more commercially available recordings of classical. I would happily buy all of it. I have heard some of his recordings and they are wonderful.
 

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I enjoy my SACDs, they seem a bit smoother, more "analog-like" in the highs.

A real treat for those of us with surround sound is Ray Kimber's 4 channel SACD IsoMike recordings. Highly recommended.
 

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I've bit on some SACD's. The ones I have sound really good to me. I may have read too much and convinced myself the SACD version of a few CD's I wanted would sound better than the regular version. The regular CD may sound good as well, dunno... don't wanna find out either.
 

Grayson Dere

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Are DVD-Audio surround mixes superior sounding to SACD multichannel? Or is this similar to the argument of 'it depends on who mastered the material?'
 

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Are DVD-Audio surround mixes superior sounding to SACD multichannel? Or is this similar to the argument of 'it depends on who mastered the material?'

I have plenty of both and am going to lean toward... it depends. Neither format should be audibly superior to the other, imo.
 
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I can’t discern a difference.
 

Matthew J Poes

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Are DVD-Audio surround mixes superior sounding to SACD multichannel? Or is this similar to the argument of 'it depends on who mastered the material?'

The objectivists argue that the PCM encoding technique uses in DVD-A was superior due to its inherently lower noise. However DSD adherents have always argued those tests were artificial and the noise in practice isn’t audible.

Me? I can’t hear any difference between formats. It’s more about the content and mixing. I don’t lose sleep over this.
 
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