Inexpensive Projector Calibration?

[phillihp23]

Looking for the most cost effective way to calibrate a projector, either self or commercial. Not necessarily the most technically perfect solution needs to be the solution. If its a self calibration method it will need to be for the technically challenged in this department, picture calibration. Lastly I would like to keep the total cost at $300 U.S. Or less.

 

[mechman]

Purchase the Spears & Munsil Calibration disk and use that to set Brightness, Contrast, Color and Tint. It gets no cheaper than that and it will get you 80% of the way there.

 

[Tony V.]

Agree, thats the best disc for setup and doesn't break the bank. Some Disney discs had a THX setup on them that is fairly basic but also gets you closer to what you want.

 

[phillihp23]

i just ran the Disney Wow disc in beginner mode and the only thing I needed to adjust was the Contrast White Levels. I think that will do for now I untill i am brave enough to try advanced.

 

[Todd Anderson]

1+ for the Spears and Munsil HD disc. Put your PJ into cinema mode and use the disc set to get your your contrast and brightness set under normal light conditions (as you usually watch the PJ). You'll probably have a pretty spectacular looking image. If you pay for a calibrator, they'll get your greyscale and gamma set, but you're going to pay around $300 for that... and as your bulb ages you'll need little tune ups.

Sometimes a pro calibration can have a huge impact, but decent modern projectors and TVs ship with fairly accurate settings out of the box. Cinema mode should get you close to where you want to be, then use the S/M disc to dial it in a little more.

 

[Michael Scott]

yup, the Spears and Munsil disc is the best way to do it outside ISF calibration. However, with new 4K screens and HDR things get a little dicier as there's not really a SET standard for calibrating HDR stuff JUST yet

 

[Lesmor]

Anyone got any experience with a Epson 9300 (6040) and Rec.709 calibration?
Natural v Cinema mode?
I have a S&M disc and AVS709 disc but they give different results for contrast and brightness

 

[Todd Anderson]

I don't have any direct experience with your Epson, but if I were a betting man, I'd keep it in Cinema mode (check the color temp setting in that mode... should be 6500). Then use the the S&M disc. If it's the HD Calibratror disc, then the included booklet has instructions that are detailed enough to get you headed in the right direction. Always calibrate under the exact conditions inwhich you use the projector (if you watch in total darkness, then calibrate in total darkness).

 

[Lesmor]

I don't have any direct experience with your Epson, but if I were a betting man, I'd keep it in Cinema mode (check the color temp setting in that mode... should be 6500). Then use the the S&M disc. If it's the HD Calibratror disc, then the included booklet has instructions that are detailed enough to get you headed in the right direction. Always calibrate under the exact conditions inwhich you use the projector (if you watch in total darkness, then calibrate in total darkness).

Many thanks Todd
It is the S&M 2nd edition

The Epson has a Superwhire option On/Off
What would you recommend?

Also having checked it out the enhanced clipping pattern shows a few empty boxes
Which control on the Epson will fix this ?

 

[Todd Anderson]

Lesmor -

Couple of things, I wouldn't engage any picture enhancement modes (such as super white... deep blacks... etc). Also, make sure you turn off any of the picture motion interpolation modes (not sure what epson calls them, but they're clear-motion modes).

In terms of the of the clipping patterns, your projector might clip. That's totally normal. I owned a JVC RS45 that would clip on those patterns. Are you viewing the patterns in a perfectly dark room? Did you go back and confirm that you set contrast correctly?

First, I'd go back to the contrast pattern and make sure you have that set correctly... then head back to the clipping pattern. You can always try a few little tweaks to contrast at the clipping pattern... if you aren't seeing an change, it could be that your projector isn't capable of displaying a full range of all color channels. No biggie - that doesn't mean you'll have a bad image or feel like you're missing out (visually speaking). Just take your time, double check your contrast and brightness settings and tweak everything as close to ideal as possible.

The best thing you can do is go through calibrating with the disc, then check some reference images that show flesh tones (faces, arms, etc). I can't remember if the SM disc has reference images, but the human eye is particularly tuned to recognizing skin/flesh tones that look unnatural or sickly. So definitely check to to make sure flesh tones look good. Then take a stroll through some of the other reference images to make sure shadow detail, blacks, etc, look solid.

 

[mechman]

I believe your 6040 is fairly similar to my 3010 - use cinema mode.

Cool thing about the Spears and Munsil disc is that you can hit the up button on your remote on any of the patterns and it will display the help file for that image. Extremely useful if you don't know what you're looking for on a specific pattern.

I wouldn't worry about the clipping if it's above 235.

 

[Lesmor]

Thanks for your thoughts guys
Please bear with me because I am trying to understand whats going on with this Projector
I am based in the UK and all the reviews I have read say that "Natural mode" is the closest to 6500 Rec.709
I am all in favour of switching Superwhite or any other manipulation off

I have just recently bought the Epson 9300 (6040) projector and use a Oppo 203 Blu-ray player
Using the S&M 2nd edition disc the patterns do not display properly unless I use HDMI expanded

This HDMI video range setting is controversial as I believe it should only be used for a PC
I have also read that for an Epson Projector you should use expanded so something does not make sense

Observations when using the Epson Natural setting for Rec.709 SDR Blu-ray

With HDMI video range on Auto and the S&M test disc
The contrast setting is blown (clipped) unless you use Epson Superwhite On
Brightness is hard clipped at 16
the advanced clipping pattern shows some empty (clipped) boxes and
xvycc box is filled when S&M help says the xvycc should be empty (clipped)

Switching to HDMI Expanded
The contrast setting shows full range boxes up to 254 without having to resort to Superwhite
Brightness also shows BTB
and voila all the clipping pattern boxes show concentric squares and the xvycc box is empty (clipped) as it should be.

Using HDMI video range Auto the S&M colour space page shows that RGB Cb Cr are all clipped
Using HDMI video range Expanded the RGB Cb Cr all have a small boxes in them which is correct

Depending which HDMI video range you use the setting values change

HDMI Auto after setting Brightness the value is higher than contrast

HDMI Expanded after setting Brightness the value is lower than contrast

I only have the S&M disc for calibration and HDMI expanded seems to be the only way it shows properly

So as I said I am trying to understand why the S&M 2nd edition disc does not display properly using the Epson with HDMI video range on Auto

Thanks in advance
Andy

 

[Todd Anderson]

Hey Andy,

Definitely put it in Natural mode... I just read a pro calibrator review and they measured all of the various picture modes. Looks like your PJ bucks the trend of Cinema being the go to mode for reference standards. So, good call there!

Based on your explanations of standard vs expanded, I'd run with expanded and calibrate from there. I looked through the Epson documentation and it appears that normal HDMI mode clips any information below 16 (which is called blacker than black) and any information above 235 (which is known as whiter than white). You don't necessarily want to see information below 16, which is the self-imposed black floor that movie makers use in order to keep certain things hidden on a set during filming. But you may want to see some info above 235. So, I would try to keep it in expanded mode, get your brightness set (which should limit your black floor to 16) and then calibrate contrast to show the appropriate white levels.

Make sense?

 

[Lesmor]

Many thanks Todd
That is exactly what the Epson does on HDMI standard so it makes perfect sense

I just needed that assurance that using HDMI expanded wasn't the wrong thing to do and that it wasn't just reserved for a PC

I really like the S&M disc for a rough and ready way to check my settings and that the source and display are behaving as they should
Cheers
Andy

 

[Todd Anderson]

Getting it into the best reference mode is an excellent first step... then using the S&M disc to get a decent tweak on contrast and brightness (not to mention using the blue filter for color) is a great second step. It gets you in the ballpark, no doubt about it.

Do all of the above... look at some reference photos to make sure flesh tones don't look unnatural... check some reference material for blacks and shadow detail... and you're good to go. You should try to recheck everything ever several 100 hours (as the bulb ages you might need to change settings). Also, you might find the need to increase or decrease bulb brightness for some movies (rare, but it happens).

Other than that, make sure you hang around AV NIRVANA to talk shop about movies and gear. ;-) Would be great to have you stay a part of the community.

Enjoy Andy!

Todd

 

[Lesmor]

Thanks Todd
I think I am getting there

I had a Panasonic AE3000 that I setup 8 yrs ago it was the only piece of kit that I never felt inclined to change
Switch on, watch film switch off, never an issue

Fast forward 8yrs and it seems some things have improved and some have stagnated.
The Epson as expected can produce an excellent image
Unfortunately it is let down with poor motion which Frame interpolation so far fails to address
I did note your earlier recommendation to turn FI off

Motion was never an issue with my 8yr old projector so I am disappointment that I now find it distracting.

Obviously this is an issue that takes us off thread so I will have a search on AV NIRVANA for some guidance

 

[Todd Anderson]

Are you talking motion issues with movies or TV?

 

[Lesmor]

I only use my Projector for watching movies so Blu-ray 24p is causing the motion problems

 

[Todd Anderson]

I'm going to go out on a limb and guess that your Panny had some sort of frame interpolation / motion smoothing engaged (unless your previous blu-ray player was introducing some kind of smoothing).

Movies are almost universally 24-frames per second, which introduces some jutter during fast action...just as you would see it in a movie theater. That frame rate (which is more than half of television) gives a film that cinematic feel.

Think there's a chance your Panny falsely set your expectations with interpolation and now that it's been removed and replaced, your eye is confused?

I saw your Epson demoed last year at a trade show... it definitely looked good to me.

 

[Lesmor]

I'm going to go out on a limb and guess that your Panny had some sort of frame interpolation / motion smoothing engaged (unless your previous blu-ray player was introducing some kind of smoothing).

Movies are almost universally 24-frames per second, which introduces some jutter during fast action...just as you would see it in a movie theater. That frame rate (which is more than half of television) gives a film that cinematic feel.

Think there's a chance your Panny falsely set your expectations with interpolation and now that it's been removed and replaced, your eye is confused?

I saw your Epson demoed last year at a trade show... it definitely looked good to me.

Hi Todd
You are of course correct the Panny did have FI which was used on a low setting.
Being 8 yrs old I don't think the Panny falsely set my expectations quite the opposite I never expected motion would be an issue 8yrs on with the Epson
The difference being that compared to Epson's FI with the Panny it actually worked.
As I say its a work in progress and perhaps a subject for a separate thread
Thanks again
Andy

 

[mechman]

Wow! I believe this may be the first time I've ever seen Cinema or ISF mode not being used to start things off. Natural mode on my 3010 leans blue.

Learn something new every day!

 

[Todd Anderson]

I agree - surprising. But, you never know until you can measure the various modes to see what's what... glad someone had done the leg work! ;-)

 

[Lesmor]

As per the thread title using the S&M disc is an inexpensive way to help a novice like me get the basic settings right
The only outstanding issue I have with "Natural" is with the colour and tint check
Using the blue filter x3 the yellow and green bars on the left still don't turn black

I should of course get a professional calibration done but every review I have read suggests that using "Natural" the Epson errors are minor and would not be noticeable in day to day use

So yes perhaps "Natural" is an unusual choice but the Cinema and Digital Cinema modes on the Epson are now the choice for UHD HDR using the DCI-P3 filter

As for the EPSON and its promise of UHD HDR further research suggests this is perhaps just wishful thinking There doesn't appear to be any industry standard for HDR and with the DCI-P3 filter in place light output diminishes watching a UHD disc resulting in a very dark image

Of course by now you may be thinking I am not happy with the Epson but I am
For the price it has a lot of features that are missing from projectors that are far more expensive

 

[vitod]

I bought the Blu ray WOW when it was cheap. Comes with a blue filter for advanced cali. Great disk. But this Spears & Munsil Calibration disk looks like the next best thing. Inexpensive too.