I'm thinking about going to Axpona 2018

[Talley]

Anyone else plan on to? Really want to put my eyes/ears on some new speakers for my room. Depending how my work goes this year I may be in the market to upgrade. Really want to visit the JTR rooms.

 

[Todd Anderson]

You DEFINITELY should go to AXPONA. Not too many home theater systems on site (typically) but you can get a great demo of JTR and Seaton (HSU is also usually there). It's a great audio show... pretty much the best one in the country!

 

[Talley]

Well I won't need to demo the HSU room obviously although would be nice to hear their in wall speakers as I've really wanted to recommend those to my dads theater.

I have a dozen or so vendors that I'd love to check out. If I go it'll be the Friday and Saturday only. Would like to visit some family before I head back to Houston.

 

[Todd Anderson]

If HSU is there, they likely won't have In-Walls along for the ride. I think you could do the whole show in 2 days...

 

[Talley]

My uncle is an audiophile extremist nut and he only does two days and I'm only interested in a few things.

Although.... I do think about the cost of the trip for me and the wife I could just buy me my Oppo UDP-205

tough choices.

 

[Todd Anderson]

Or do both

 

[tesseract]

I highly recommend AXPONA, especially if you want to see a JTR tour de force.

 

[Talley]

My uncle says that Friday is the best day to go. Only half as busy or better than Saturday.

 

[Matthew J Poes]

I’ll be there the whole time. I live local so let me know if you decide to go. There is a whole local Chicago crew.

If you can believe it I’ve been in the area for 4-5 years and this will be my first AXPONA show. Never able to attend in the past.

 

[AudioThesis]

I'll be showcasing a 2 channel system in room 1520. Setup should include:

Rosso Fiorentino Certaldo Tower ($6,000/pr)
MastersounD BoX Integrated ($3,000)
North Star Design Intenso ($1,000)

I might have a few more components but I'm trying to keep the retail cost under $15,000 and closer to $10,000. We will see what happens.

 

[Matthew J Poes]

I'll be showcasing a 2 channel system in room 1520. Setup should include:

Rosso Fiorentino Certaldo Tower ($6,000/pr)
MastersounD BoX Integrated ($3,000)
North Star Design Intenso ($1,000)

I might have a few more components but I'm trying to keep the retail cost under $15,000 and closer to $10,000. We will see what happens.

That North star DAC is cheaper than I thought! Is that the same DAC we were using together at the GTG? That DAC seemed really nice for $1000.

Don't forget there will also be Poes Acoustics custom treatment and setup assistance.

 

[AudioThesis]

I brought the Supremo to the meet - that one is currently $3,000. The Intenso is one of, if not the best DAC under four figures IMO. That will obviously boil down to listening preferences and system synergy, but it is a superb little DAC. It employs the ES9016 chip but builds a proper analog section around it to truly bring out what its capable of.

 

[Matthew J Poes]

I brought the Supremo to the meet - that one is currently $3,000. The Intenso is one of, if not the best DAC under four figures IMO. That will obviously boil down to listening preferences and system synergy, but it is a superb little DAC. It employs the ES9016 chip but builds a proper analog section around it to truly bring out what its capable of.

That's where the action is anymore. The analogue output. Most DACs today are achieving near perfection and probably are inaudibly different for most people in most use cases. Heck the dac built into the iPhone dongle can fully pass 16 bit data and then some. It is technically perfect. It's analogue section is another story.

 

[Sonnie]

I am thinking about going again... if I can work it out.

 

[Matthew J Poes]

I am thinking about going again... if I can work it out.

I'm going to need to get going on finishing the theater. After finishing it, being happy for a week, going on a shopping spree, and tearing it back and never finishing it, it's not company worthy. If you and the rest of the AV NIRVANA gang will all be here I'll need to get it presentation worthy.

 

[tesseract]

My uncle says that Friday is the best day to go. Only half as busy or better than Saturday.

Setup is a bit rushed on Friday, many of the rooms get dialed in and sound better on the following days.

 

[tesseract]

That's where the action is anymore. The analogue output. Most DACs today are achieving near perfection and probably are inaudibly different for most people in most use cases. Heck the dac built into the iPhone dongle can fully pass 16 bit data and then some. It is technically perfect. It's analogue section is another story.

Yes, it has come down to the outputs. Properly working DACs operate well within the window of human hearing perception, the analog sections often do, too

 

[AudioThesis]

Chips do have their own sound, but the bigger determinant has always been everything surrounding the chip. It gets tiring seeing individuals who think all DAC's sound the same and don't take into consideration anything but the chip.

 

[Matthew J Poes]

Chips do have their own sound, but the bigger determinant has always been everything surrounding the chip. It gets tiring seeing individuals who think all DAC's sound the same and don't take into consideration anything but the chip.

My main interest in the chip is that they are the ceiling for the bit resolution of the system. While the analogue circuit has the biggest impact on the sound, having a DAC that can realize the full bit resolution of the best formats requires that the actual DAC chip is capable. The very best DAC chips today are still not there but are the closest they have ever become. The newest 32 bit DAC's can now achieve in excess of 21bits, which is as good as we have been able to get. The best analogue circuits can now also achieve well in excess of 120db's of dynamic range, vanishingly low distortion of all types, and a bandwidth that far exceeds the hearing of even bats. This stuff excites the technical part of my brain.

That DAC's filter can also impact the sound. I like that we are starting to see options, especially user selectable options.

 

[AudioThesis]

While that is true, I'd rather have a superior unit with a lesser chip than a lesser unit with a superior chip. Of course, then you have chipless DAC's that throw that notion completely out the window.

 

[Matthew J Poes]

While that is true, I'd rather have a superior unit with a lesser chip than a lesser unit with a superior chip. Of course, then you have chipless DAC's that throw that notion completely out the window.

If you are referring to the R2R ladder DACs then they are just discrete DACs. Those are good as long as you have very high precision resistors that are tightly matched. Otherwise their performance can really be far below an actual integrated chip type dac. It's much easier to precision trim resistors in am IC than match discrete parts. Such Dacs exist though and are excellent.

I agree with your other point but with limits. The difference between ESS sabre DACs is small so a lesser chip with a better analogue stage is certainly valuable as compared to the small improvement in the better chip. On the other than, there have been some really flawed dac chips in use that not only underperform but also damage the audio output. No analogue circuit can fix that. One such chip can't even realize true 16 bit resolution yet remains popular with some audiophiles. I honestly believe it's nonsense, these chips don't sound good. I've tried them and I've seen numerous tests that showed their serious flaws.

I think the real issue with today's chips is that they are so much better than just 5 years ago (when 18 bit resolution was the upper limit and even that cost Megabucks). Today you even sell a dac that will certainly achieve at least 20 bits of resolution and sound great for a grand. That didn't used to be true.

 

[Sonnie]

We probably need to take these last few posts about "chips" and move them to a new thread... since they wondered off topic in relation to the OP's original intention of the thread. I opened it expecting to read about folks going to Axpona and see posts on "chips" and how they sound (actually had no idea they made a sound - I always hear my sound thru the speakers).

 

[TitaniumTroy]

I'm coming for all 3 days, I like hanging with Terasect and Wayne.

 

[tesseract]

Looking forward to seeing you again, Troy!

 

[Matthew J Poes]

Should be an exciting time for us all.