How to Route Bass Frequency Left/Right In A Triamp Set Up As One Channel

Trdat

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I have gone through this twice before and unfortunately no one has been able to give me simple instructions. Third time lucky, I have triamped set up which I will now add side surrounds and a centre making it 5.1. The triamped mains will be using 5 channels( 2 times tweeter 2 times midrange and summed Bass), with the bass frequency summed as one and another 3 channels for side left/right and centre Making it 8 channels which is what I have in terms of channels available.

How to I get the bass frequency left and right to summ as one but still get the ability to provide it with a crossover frequency to use within the triamped set up in a 5.1 surround system?

I added a subwoofer front left which is either obviously wrong or should be used instead of the Bass left/right but I tried that and I couldnt add frequency for it to used as a triamp.

I have attached the Speaker and bass set up.

Any advice will be apprecaited.

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Omid

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Sorry. I’m not sure I understand what you mean exactly. Can you describe you speaker setup in more detail ?
Are you using the main speaker woofers in mono (or is it 2 subs)? Crossed over at 200 Hz ?
You then want to use the same woofers (or subs) as a subwoofer for the rear and center speakers (crossed over at 250Hz?).
 

Trdat

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Hey Omid,

I have read many of your posts throughout the Audiolense forums, great educational tool.

Basically, I have a U-DIO8 and have myself a triamp system with a compression driver, 15 inch midbass and 2 subs. Crossover points are 900hz and 100hz. The U-DIO8 is connected to each DAC seperately for each frequency range, this set up is all stereo, so technically 6 channels worth, leaving me one DAC for another 2 channels available. Totally disregard the crossover points in the above photo as they were given in the process, I haven't changed them yet.

Now, I would like to make a 5.1 surround adding front sides and a centre speaker but in fullrange. This makes it 9 channels so I have to sum either the front right/left surround into one or the dual subs into one and I am presuming that its better to maintain stereo for the front left/right surrounds so ill sum the dual sums.

I have previously succesfuly prepared the triamp and have added a centre speaker to it but that was still 7 channels there was no need to sum 2 channels into one. With the 9 channels I can't figure out how to sum the 2 stereo bass freuencies within the crossover tab into one and still have it as bass frequency to set the crossover at 100hz for the technically one sub(coming out of the one channel of the DAC while the other channel will be used for the centre speaker.

I managed to add a sub to the speaker and bass management but in the crossover configuration I wasn't able to add a crossover point not sure what happen there.

Please let me know if I have provided an adequate explanation, as once you know what I need to do its very simple.
 

Omid

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If I understood correctly, you need something like the set up I have in the images attached (pic 1&2), but that would call for nine channels, but you only have eight available. So you would have to modify the set up in my images to only show one driver for your subwoofer (image 3).

Since both your subwoofers would have to use one common channel, is it not possible to daisychain them, or have a Y splitter that sends the same signal from your DAC to both subwoofers?

By the way if you’re using separate DACs, that do not share a common clock, you might see some variability in timing. I would recommend running sweeps a few times over a few days, to see if the time delays measured between your various channels remain constant. If you find that there is variability it’s going to be an issue for proper time alignment.
 

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Trdat

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If I understood correctly, you need something like the set up I have in the images attached (pic 1&2), but that would call for nine channels, but you only have eight available. So you would have to modify the set up in my images to only show one driver for your subwoofer (image 3).

Since both your subwoofers would have to use one common channel, is it not possible to daisychain them, or have a Y splitter that sends the same signal from your DAC to both subwoofers?

By the way if you’re using separate DACs, that do not share a common clock, you might see some variability in timing. I would recommend running sweeps a few times over a few days, to see if the time delays measured between your various channels remain constant. If you find that there is variability it’s going to be an issue for proper time alignment.
Yes you have understood me correctly, and I do have a Y splitter for the subwoofers but I still need the one channel in the set up for it to add up to 8.

I see what you have done in the Speaker and bass management, that is what I did but I will try again. Actually, the set up you have is exactly what I need I am presuming you did that for my understanding.

I think I am not far off, so I will try again tonight.
 
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juicehifi

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Omid,

You also need to check the playback format and channel routing. If you aim for 7.1 playback you have to make a 7.1 routing scheme yourself.
 

Trdat

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Omid,

You also need to check the playback format and channel routing. If you aim for 7.1 playback you have to make a 7.1 routing scheme yourself.
So what needs to be done in the playback and channel routing section? I am presuming this refers to what I need as well right?
 

juicehifi

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Press "New" or "New / Edit Current" and this purple configurator appears. I started with the 5.1 Format which I will edit into a 7.1 format. So I will add back left and back right from the drop-downs.

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Back Left hasn't been added here. I have to enter the drop-down and choose it. As soon as it has been chosen it will disappear from the "add..." dropdown and appear in the matrix. It will also be selectable in the "remove..." dropdown. I press OK when I have choosen Back Left and Back Right

And this is the result:
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Next thing to do is to fill in the matrix with the two missing numbers:

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That's it.

This matrix tells the convolver how to play different playback formats on your speakers. With a 7.1 source and a 7.1 speaker setup this is straight forward, but quite often the speaker setup is different from the playback format.
 
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Trdat

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Press "New" or "New / Edit Current" and this purple configurator appears. I started with the 5.1 Format which I will edit into a 7.1 format. So I add back left and back right from the drop-downs and press OK
This matrix tells the convolver how to play different playback formats on your speakers.
Okay, maybe this was what was missing because I kind of had done what Omid said and I couldn't get it going.

Really appreciate it. I will play around with it.
 

Omid

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My system is 2.1. I just created that setup to illustrate but I should have done it better (as a proper 7.1 instead of modifying 5.1), thank you for pointing that out Bernt! I was going to redo it for you, but Bernt beat me to it.
Hope that works out for you.
 

Trdat

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Bernt,

I just can't get it going, firstly I can't input a lowpass for the bass frequency its not letting me. And if you look at my crossover XO on my graph its just not showing the triamp as well as the side speakers and centre.

Please let me know what I am doing wrong.

Here are the pictures of what I have done.
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Trdat

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TO be clear this is what my triamp set up without the surround attempt looks like and works fine. My normal listening configuration.

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Omid

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Here, try this setup file. It looks like you have variable width crossovers. You'll have to change this setup file accordingly.
 

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Trdat

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Here, try this setup file. It looks like you have variable width crossovers. You'll have to change this setup file accordingly.
Omid thanks so much for this. But I still got 2 extra channels from which section do I delete them from?

I tried from the speaker set up and made nmo difference so I am presuming from the playback format and channel routing but the purple box needs you to add another channel so how do I delete without adding another channel?

And in crossover configuration it's not allowing me to delete teh 2 extra channels. Anyway, please let me know how to rid the two extra channels and techinically I should be good to go.
 

Omid

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ok I'm going to go back to 5.1 with XO on the mains. Does that work for you. If not, I'd need an schematic drawing of what is connected to what so I understand better.
Basically with this setup you have 8 channels. Only 1 channel to the sub, which you would Y split to both subs.
 

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Trdat

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ok I'm going to go back to 5.1 with XO on the mains. Does that work for you. If not, I'd need an schematic drawing of what is connected to what so I understand better.
Basically with this setup you have 8 channels. Only 1 channel to the sub, which you would Y split to both subs.
[/QUOTE
Your 5.1 zip file is the same set up as the 7.1 minus the back speakers so that should do it. The XO was correct and I know how to play around with that.

But I am still keen to understand what I had done wrong? So I can get it right next time. I think I wasn't far off, any advice...?

I will try measuring tonight but it seems all okay, really appreciate it Omid.
 
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Trdat

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If you send your setup file the same way I did I can have a look to see where the difference is.
Great, I'll do that. Really important for me to understand that tiny thing that I didn't get right. I'll send it through tomorrow.

But overall it worked and I set it up in Jriver and it sounds great. I really can't hear any difference between JRSS upmixing vs no upmixing and essentially each speaker is playing the same thing rather than a encoded or delayed signal to the sides but sounds good.

Appreciate the effort guys, it is a learning curve but possible to achieve.
 

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I’m struggling to get my head around what you’re trying to do along w/the method of execution.

I used just two 3-way EXOs & 5 stereo amps to tri-amp my LR & bi-amp my center w/out whatEVER you are doing
 

Omid

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Weird. I don't see any difference between your file and mine other than a change in the crossover widths and frequencies.
Is this the same setup that would not work for you?
 

Trdat

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I’m struggling to get my head around what you’re trying to do along w/the method of execution.

I used just two 3-way EXOs & 5 stereo amps to tri-amp my LR & bi-amp my center w/out whatEVER you are doing
As in my surround and triamp process? What part don't you exactly get?
 

Trdat

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Weird. I don't see any difference between your file and mine other than a change in the crossover widths and frequencies.
Is this the same setup that would not work for you?
Well, I knew I was close and the difference was miniscule so I really couldn't figure it out myself. I think I need to try one fresh of the bat and see if it works.

Can you tell me in the edit, we have 80hz for the crossover point then 80.01, followed by 80.02 what is the .0 continuation for?

And how come I can't add a crossover frequency for the subwoofer, it doesn't allow me to even when the variable widths crossover is ticked. I would like to make the sub highpass much higher but I am limited to the having the one crossover point for the mid lowpass and sub highpass.
 

Omid

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The exact crossover number you choose does not matter.
in this example we went with 80.01, 80.02, 80.03 etc, but it could have been 80.1,80.2, 80.3. The numbers don’t even need to be sequential 80.01,80.1, 80.45, 80.21. As long as the number is not identical. If it’s an identical number AL will use the same calculation for all channels with identical crossover numbers.
since all speakers and locations in the room are not identical that’s not desirable.

usually a crossover has the same frequency for the high and low pass filters so their sum gives you a more or less flat frequency response and avoid comb filtering. You can have an overlap if you wish by ticking the appropriate box, see picture

51588
 
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