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- McIntosh MC1.25KW Monoblock Amps
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- MartinLogan Focus C-18
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- Zero Surge 8R15W-1 | Salamander Synergy Equipment Stand
There are a few well respected individuals out there that tell us not to EQ above 500Hz, that we may be doing more harm than good when we do. I have read where several have written something along the lines of once we see the nice and pretty and flat response, our bias kicks in and we automatically think it sounds better. I suspect that’s probably true for the most part, as it’s hard for our brains to be honest with us about all things audio. When we spend mega bucks on amps, processors, and speakers, that same bias is likely going to kick in and cause us to believe it sounds better. Afterall, who wants to spend $10,000 and turn around and say “I made a mistake”… especially if they cannot send it back? There is too much pride going on for most people to admit a mistake. Besides, it is going to sound better because you did all your research, read great reviews, read numerous forum posts speaking highly of it, your friends have been encouraging you, and again, you have spent thousands of dollars to get it. How could it possibly NOT sound better?
If we use the same thought process behind not eq’ing above 500Hz because once we see the nice and pretty response we will prefer it, we may as well never read another thing about any equipment we are considering purchasing because once we read nice and pretty things about it, if we buy it, we will prefer it. Same logic IMO.
We decided to do some unofficial blind testing during our recent speaker evaluation to listen to partial eq vs full eq. Wayne, Dennis, and I were present during our evaluation event. There was nothing sophisticated about our DSP testing, we just did it like we wanted to do it. We are not trying to be scientific or please anyone but ourselves, so if it is not to your liking, you are more than welcome to ignore it… we would actually prefer you did. We will share what we learned with those that might be interested and find the information useful. Whether it proves anything to anyone else is not something we care about… but it proved to us that we are certainly not ready to throw the towel in on eq’ing above 500Hz based on what a few people believe, regardless of their credentials. They say our brain and two ears hear differently than the mic… well then, let your brain and two ears tell you whether you like partial eq or full eq better. However, the only caveat is that you need to have someone else do the eq’ing for you and not allow you to know which is which, then your brain and two ears can actually be honest for you to make an intelligent decision.
During our event we setup 4 different speakers for evaluation. With each speaker I personally setup three different Dirac Live target curves. We had three presets… one with Dirac eq’ing partial correction without subs, one eq’ing full correction without subs, and then one with subs and random partial or full correction. Dirac could also be turned off on either preset with the push of one button on the remote. Dennis and Wayne left the room while I did the setup and had no clue as to what preset was what. It was completely random on my part as to how I setup the presets, and it was not always the same for both guys, and they alternated who listened first. I level matched them as close as possible, attempting to keep the full correction along the average response of the partial correction, and keeping the subs level with the lowest frequency of the main speakers, except for the MartinLogan 15A's... where there was no need to compare subs since they have four 12-inch subs with four 500-watt (1000 watts dynamic) amps, although we did listen and compare with subs (it was not level matched). Below are examples. Wayne will be posting more graphs with each speaker thread; these are merely examples to show you how I levelized the presets.
With every speaker Dennis could tell the difference between the three presets, although it was not drastic on any of them. He was always able to identify which was corrected full and which was corrected partial, as well as whether preset 1 or 2 matched 3. In 3 of the 4 he preferred the full correction (before I identified which was full)… only in one instance did he state he thought the partial correction sounded slightly better. However, with all four speakers he did state he could likely live with either correction. He stated he noticed a slight edge on several of the partially corrected presets, and with some songs he liked it, and with other songs not so much, although again, it was not drastic, and he could live with either, yet still preferring the fully corrected if he had to pick. There was one instance that I noticed Dennis shining the flashlight over at one of the subs to see if it was playing. He had a difficult time determining which preset the subs were on.
Wayne verified he was able to tell the difference in the presets with three of the four speakers, and on one he said he really could not tell much of a difference. He liked both presets between full and partial correction, and said he could live with either one, and furthermore he did not feel either one was adversely affecting the sound in any way whatsoever. With the MartinLogan speakers he did actually prefer full correction, but it was not a deal breaker.
As for me… I knew which presets were what, yet I was NOT able to clearly identify between the full and partial corrections… they were very close for me. I was able to identify when the subs were playing on a couple of songs, but not all, except for the A7X speakers. I felt the A7X needed subs on most all the songs I was listening to, and it was noticeable enough to cause me to prefer the subs.
It could be that my room setup accommodates full correction better than others. Quite possibly due to the treatments and the close proximity of the speakers to the listening position, along with the speakers being pulled on out into the room more than most people are able to accommodate. It is hard to say, but either way, we could not verify that full correction as doing any harm to the sound, and in fact was slightly more preferred for the most part.
ADDITION: We should also note that while we evaluated 4 very different speakers here, it will ultimately all come down to the speaker, your room and your ears as to whether EQ'ing full range will help.
While Wayne and Dennis may give more precise details about what they heard, we are not going to further justify what we did, or argue with anyone that is hard-headed and adamant about not eq’ing full range, and/or about something that perhaps they haven’t even tested themselves, or maybe only tested a time or two, and hasn’t done blind testing for themselves, as that is truly the only way for you to know if it will work for you in your room. If you want to remain as you are with what you do, so be it… if you want to experiment and try it for yourself and attempt to be honest with yourself, you may want to try it. We fully realize a man’s opinion changed against his will is of the same opinion still.
If we use the same thought process behind not eq’ing above 500Hz because once we see the nice and pretty response we will prefer it, we may as well never read another thing about any equipment we are considering purchasing because once we read nice and pretty things about it, if we buy it, we will prefer it. Same logic IMO.
We decided to do some unofficial blind testing during our recent speaker evaluation to listen to partial eq vs full eq. Wayne, Dennis, and I were present during our evaluation event. There was nothing sophisticated about our DSP testing, we just did it like we wanted to do it. We are not trying to be scientific or please anyone but ourselves, so if it is not to your liking, you are more than welcome to ignore it… we would actually prefer you did. We will share what we learned with those that might be interested and find the information useful. Whether it proves anything to anyone else is not something we care about… but it proved to us that we are certainly not ready to throw the towel in on eq’ing above 500Hz based on what a few people believe, regardless of their credentials. They say our brain and two ears hear differently than the mic… well then, let your brain and two ears tell you whether you like partial eq or full eq better. However, the only caveat is that you need to have someone else do the eq’ing for you and not allow you to know which is which, then your brain and two ears can actually be honest for you to make an intelligent decision.
During our event we setup 4 different speakers for evaluation. With each speaker I personally setup three different Dirac Live target curves. We had three presets… one with Dirac eq’ing partial correction without subs, one eq’ing full correction without subs, and then one with subs and random partial or full correction. Dirac could also be turned off on either preset with the push of one button on the remote. Dennis and Wayne left the room while I did the setup and had no clue as to what preset was what. It was completely random on my part as to how I setup the presets, and it was not always the same for both guys, and they alternated who listened first. I level matched them as close as possible, attempting to keep the full correction along the average response of the partial correction, and keeping the subs level with the lowest frequency of the main speakers, except for the MartinLogan 15A's... where there was no need to compare subs since they have four 12-inch subs with four 500-watt (1000 watts dynamic) amps, although we did listen and compare with subs (it was not level matched). Below are examples. Wayne will be posting more graphs with each speaker thread; these are merely examples to show you how I levelized the presets.
With every speaker Dennis could tell the difference between the three presets, although it was not drastic on any of them. He was always able to identify which was corrected full and which was corrected partial, as well as whether preset 1 or 2 matched 3. In 3 of the 4 he preferred the full correction (before I identified which was full)… only in one instance did he state he thought the partial correction sounded slightly better. However, with all four speakers he did state he could likely live with either correction. He stated he noticed a slight edge on several of the partially corrected presets, and with some songs he liked it, and with other songs not so much, although again, it was not drastic, and he could live with either, yet still preferring the fully corrected if he had to pick. There was one instance that I noticed Dennis shining the flashlight over at one of the subs to see if it was playing. He had a difficult time determining which preset the subs were on.
Wayne verified he was able to tell the difference in the presets with three of the four speakers, and on one he said he really could not tell much of a difference. He liked both presets between full and partial correction, and said he could live with either one, and furthermore he did not feel either one was adversely affecting the sound in any way whatsoever. With the MartinLogan speakers he did actually prefer full correction, but it was not a deal breaker.
As for me… I knew which presets were what, yet I was NOT able to clearly identify between the full and partial corrections… they were very close for me. I was able to identify when the subs were playing on a couple of songs, but not all, except for the A7X speakers. I felt the A7X needed subs on most all the songs I was listening to, and it was noticeable enough to cause me to prefer the subs.
It could be that my room setup accommodates full correction better than others. Quite possibly due to the treatments and the close proximity of the speakers to the listening position, along with the speakers being pulled on out into the room more than most people are able to accommodate. It is hard to say, but either way, we could not verify that full correction as doing any harm to the sound, and in fact was slightly more preferred for the most part.
ADDITION: We should also note that while we evaluated 4 very different speakers here, it will ultimately all come down to the speaker, your room and your ears as to whether EQ'ing full range will help.
While Wayne and Dennis may give more precise details about what they heard, we are not going to further justify what we did, or argue with anyone that is hard-headed and adamant about not eq’ing full range, and/or about something that perhaps they haven’t even tested themselves, or maybe only tested a time or two, and hasn’t done blind testing for themselves, as that is truly the only way for you to know if it will work for you in your room. If you want to remain as you are with what you do, so be it… if you want to experiment and try it for yourself and attempt to be honest with yourself, you may want to try it. We fully realize a man’s opinion changed against his will is of the same opinion still.
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