Dirac Bass Management Question

BigDan79

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Hello!

I currently have the Emotiva XMC2 using a miniDSP 2x4 for my 3 subs. It took quite a bit of time and effort to measure and setup the subs. I was wondering if the DDRC-88A with Dirac bass management would be easier to set things up for changes in the room or future expansion. I don’t fully understand what the Dirac bass management does but I would love to be able to use one program to setup subs correctly like what Dirac does with all the other speakers.
 

JStewart

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I was wondering if the DDRC-88A with Dirac bass management
Dirac has what’s called Dirac Live Bass Control or DLBC. I see the 88A offers the Bass Management app which is not the same. It’s possible I missed it though

I don’t fully understand what the Dirac bass management does
It automates the sub to sub alignment with the goal of reducing seat to seat response variation.
It aligns each symmetric pair of speakers and the center channel to be in phase with the sub group at the XO.

Sorry if my reply is short. Sitting in a hospital room atm.
 

BigDan79

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Emotiva XPA-9 Gen3
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Emotiva XPA-6 Gen3
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Panasonic UB820 4k Player, Apple 4k
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Paradigm Studio 60 v.3
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Paradigm Studio CC-570 v.3
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Paradigm Prestige 25s
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2 Paradigm PW-2200 v.2, 1 Rythmik FV18
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Does DLBC do everything needed for setting up multiple subs? Phase, room correction, level etc? Currently you have to run REW for each sub then another program to get the settings for the miniDSP. I would be great if DLBC would do all of that for you.
 

Kal Rubinson

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Does DLBC do everything needed for setting up multiple subs? Phase, room correction, level etc? Currently you have to run REW for each sub then another program to get the settings for the miniDSP. I would be great if DLBC would do all of that for you.
It does.
 

JStewart

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Does DLBC do everything needed for setting up multiple subs? Phase, room correction, level etc? Currently you have to run REW for each sub then another program to get the settings for the miniDSP. I would be great if DLBC would do all of that for you.
It does.
There’s one watch out and that is the subs should be the same. Using MSO for example you have the flexibility to make sure a sub isn’t boosted where it isn’t capable. Dirac does not currently account for subs with different capabilities.
 

BigDan79

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My AV System  
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Emotiva XMC-2
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Emotiva XPA-9 Gen3
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Emotiva XPA-6 Gen3
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Panasonic UB820 4k Player, Apple 4k
Front Speakers
Paradigm Studio 60 v.3
Center Channel Speaker
Paradigm Studio CC-570 v.3
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Paradigm Studio 60 v.3
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Paradigm Prestige 25s
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Paradigm Prestige 25s
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SVS Prime Elevation
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SVS Prime Elevation
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2 Paradigm PW-2200 v.2, 1 Rythmik FV18
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LG C1 77" OLED
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MiniDSP
I have 2 12’s that are the same but the third is not.
 

Kal Rubinson

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It does.
There’s one watch out and that is the subs should be the same. Using MSO for example you have the flexibility to make sure a sub isn’t boosted where it isn’t capable. Dirac does not currently account for subs with different capabilities.
It's in beta and available on request.
 

BigDan79

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Emotiva XPA-9 Gen3
Additional Amp
Emotiva XPA-6 Gen3
Universal / Blu-ray / CD Player
Panasonic UB820 4k Player, Apple 4k
Front Speakers
Paradigm Studio 60 v.3
Center Channel Speaker
Paradigm Studio CC-570 v.3
Front Wide Speakers
Paradigm Studio 60 v.3
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Paradigm Prestige 25s
Surround Back Speakers
Paradigm Prestige 25s
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SVS Prime Elevation
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SVS Prime Elevation
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2 Paradigm PW-2200 v.2, 1 Rythmik FV18
Video Display Device
LG C1 77" OLED
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MiniDSP
How many subs can DLBC work with?

I wonder why DLBC isn’t available for the miniDSP 2x4 but the standard Dirac is?
 

Kal Rubinson

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How many subs can DLBC work with?
Theoretically, as many as you have channels for. With the beta, a config (.json) file is required and they provided a 5.3 json for me.
I wonder why DLBC isn’t available for the miniDSP 2x4 but the standard Dirac is?
Dunno but it might include, but not be limited to, inadequate processing capacity in the miniDSP 2x4 and licensing issues.
 

BigDan79

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Emotiva XPA-9 Gen3
Additional Amp
Emotiva XPA-6 Gen3
Universal / Blu-ray / CD Player
Panasonic UB820 4k Player, Apple 4k
Front Speakers
Paradigm Studio 60 v.3
Center Channel Speaker
Paradigm Studio CC-570 v.3
Front Wide Speakers
Paradigm Studio 60 v.3
Surround Speakers
Paradigm Prestige 25s
Surround Back Speakers
Paradigm Prestige 25s
Front Height Speakers
SVS Prime Elevation
Rear Height Speakers
SVS Prime Elevation
Subwoofers
2 Paradigm PW-2200 v.2, 1 Rythmik FV18
Video Display Device
LG C1 77" OLED
Other Equipment
MiniDSP
Maybe I will ask Santa for a new minDSP this year. It would be interested to see how DLBC works compared to using REW/MSO. I am by far not an expert at these programs. With the work and time required for REW/MSO, DLBC is very attractive option to improve my room response.
 

JStewart

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It's in beta and available on request.
Thanks Kal. Great to have folks around like you to get the news early.
Hope you, your family and neighbors are all safe and sound after the storm.

I wonder why DLBC isn’t available for the miniDSP 2x4 but the standard Dirac is?
Just a guess, but a significant part of the DLBC program is the sub group to mains (and other symmetrical sets & center) crossover and phase alignment. Only part of the program would be used in that scenario. It’s a good idea though. A Dirac package to automate the sub “group” set up. You could then run pretty much any room correction on top of it if you had a mind too.

I thought I read somewhere that AndyC was working on getting MSO more automated.
With different subs I use it with the MiniDSP and then DLBC for mains integration.
 

Kal Rubinson

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Thanks Kal. Great to have folks around like you to get the news early.
Hope you, your family and neighbors are all safe and sound after the storm.
Thanks. We stayed in NYC where it was little more than a heavy rain and all of us are fine. We do not think the CT place suffered much more.

Just a guess, but a significant part of the DLBC program is the sub group to mains (and other symmetrical sets & center) crossover and phase alignment. Only part of the program would be used in that scenario. It’s a good idea though. A Dirac package to automate the sub “group” set up. You could then run pretty much any room correction on top of it if you had a mind too.
I am not so sure you can separate the various functions effectively.

I thought I read somewhere that AndyC was working on getting MSO more automated.
With different subs I use it with the MiniDSP and then DLBC for mains integration.
It could work.
 

AustinJerry

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Unless MiniDSP has announced something since I owned an 88A, the 88A does not support DLBC. And keep in mind that any processor that supports DLBC requires a dedicated output for each sub. So, for example, if you have four subs, there would only be four outputs left on an 8-channel processor for main speakers. That is why most of the newer processors that support DLBC (the Monolith HTP-1, for example) have 16 channels.

When I was using an 88A, I continued to use a 2x4 to consolidate my four subs onto one 88A output, leaving seven channels for my 7.1 setup. This was a very good sounding setup, but moving on to a processor that supports full DLBC resulted in an improvement in bass.
 

BigDan79

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My AV System  
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Emotiva XMC-2
Main Amp
Emotiva XPA-9 Gen3
Additional Amp
Emotiva XPA-6 Gen3
Universal / Blu-ray / CD Player
Panasonic UB820 4k Player, Apple 4k
Front Speakers
Paradigm Studio 60 v.3
Center Channel Speaker
Paradigm Studio CC-570 v.3
Front Wide Speakers
Paradigm Studio 60 v.3
Surround Speakers
Paradigm Prestige 25s
Surround Back Speakers
Paradigm Prestige 25s
Front Height Speakers
SVS Prime Elevation
Rear Height Speakers
SVS Prime Elevation
Subwoofers
2 Paradigm PW-2200 v.2, 1 Rythmik FV18
Video Display Device
LG C1 77" OLED
Other Equipment
MiniDSP
I was hoping to find a device I could hook multiple subs into and the software take care of the setup. Maybe I will have to just wait to update my XMC2 to a RMC with expansion ports and DLBM. Hopefully that will happen at some point.
 

AustinJerry

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I was hoping to find a device I could hook multiple subs into and the software take care of the setup. Maybe I will have to just wait to update my XMC2 to a RMC with expansion ports and DLBM. Hopefully that will happen at some point.
Before making any purchases, you should take some time to familiarize yourself with the Monolith HTP-1 in this thread: https://www.avsforum.com/threads/the-official-monoprice-monolith-htp-1-owners-thread.3112176/post-59020190

There are a number of previous Emotiva owners who have switched to the HTP-1 with no reservations. The consensus is that it sounds better, has fewer issues, and has a working implementation of Dirac Live Bass Control.

Since I upgraded to the HTP-1, replacing my MiniDSP 88A/2x4 setup, managing my four subs has gone from a labor-intensive operation to a completely automated solution, and the results are even better now. Less hardware, fewer cables, less work--what more could you want?
 

BigDan79

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Location
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My AV System  
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Emotiva XMC-2
Main Amp
Emotiva XPA-9 Gen3
Additional Amp
Emotiva XPA-6 Gen3
Universal / Blu-ray / CD Player
Panasonic UB820 4k Player, Apple 4k
Front Speakers
Paradigm Studio 60 v.3
Center Channel Speaker
Paradigm Studio CC-570 v.3
Front Wide Speakers
Paradigm Studio 60 v.3
Surround Speakers
Paradigm Prestige 25s
Surround Back Speakers
Paradigm Prestige 25s
Front Height Speakers
SVS Prime Elevation
Rear Height Speakers
SVS Prime Elevation
Subwoofers
2 Paradigm PW-2200 v.2, 1 Rythmik FV18
Video Display Device
LG C1 77" OLED
Other Equipment
MiniDSP
I have read some bad reviews on the HTP-1 too. I think all processors have their issues. I am currently running a 16 channel processor with the miniDSP 2x4. The issue is all the processes involved with setting up the miniDSP.
 

AustinJerry

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I have read some bad reviews on the HTP-1 too. I think all processors have their issues. I am currently running a 16 channel processor with the miniDSP 2x4. The issue is all the processes involved with setting up the miniDSP.
Every processor has, or has had, its problems. The HTP-1 has a track record of good support, and issues have been addressed quickly. It is in a solid state now, which is more than I can say about Emotiva products. Good results can be had with the MiniDSP 2x4, but still not as good as DLBC, and certainly not as automated.
 
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