Dayton Ultimax 15 experience?

[gatestick]

I am looking to upgrade my diy sub to a 15 incher from a 12. The cabinet was designed for a 15 but I used a 12 because it is what I had and did not have the cash to get a 15. I have seen that the Dayton Ultimax 18 is recommended on this forum. I am hoping the 15 is just a smaller version of the 18. My other concern is that the 12, I was using was a Dayton RSS315-HF and I do not like it at all. I swapped that out for an old Infinity reference car subwoofer that I wasn't using. (much better) I would like any suggestions in this basic price point $400.00 max. I am using the Dayton SPA500 amp.

 

[chrapladm]

Will this be for home theater or music? What are the cabinet dimensions?

There are a lot of car audio subs you can use. Comes down to budget space and ears. $400 is fine for most standard 15's. Some of the better HT 15's can be more.

You also need to simulate what your subwoofer will do in your box you have. Then possibly add some EQ or DSP of some kind. You dont have a large amp so you will need a driver that can work in your box. Ultimax might need more power to utilise its excursions. BUT it depends on box dimensions.

 

[gatestick]

The box is 3.1 cubic feet. Dual 2 inch precision ports tuned to 35 hz. I can plug the ports if necessary or just to play and see the difference with REW. Mostly movies. 80/20. Thank you for the quick response. I will gladly take any suggestions. I do have access to a treo 15. Not sure what model it is. I also don't want to spend 400 for a 15 year old woofer.

 

[Sonnie Parker]

I still have a pair of 18's that I'm no longer using. Great speakers, but I'm a bit more critical on my music listening so I have SB16-Ultras now. These 18's could take anything I threw at them... powered with about 2,000 watts each and pounded. My guess is the 15's are very capable as well.

I am probably going to put the 18's back in the room to use for movies.

 

[gatestick]

I wish I had designed the box for an 18. If these are even in the same category as the SVS I am sure I will be happy. Sounds like they must be good for movie sound effects, and not as great for music. This is the first box I designed to look good and have the wife be ok with it. It costs as much to make them look good as it does to build the cabinet. Also takes twice the time. It was a fun project.

 

[Bullitt5094]

I built a couple of subs using the Dayton RSS390-HO 15s. Not the same sub but I would think very similar in results. They've worked very well in a single sub sealed enclosure powered by crown amps. But the best configuration was a sealed dual opposed box with the Daytons. That gets pretty large though.
But I purchased a servo controlled sub from Rythmik Audio and will never go back to non-servo. The G25HP Rythmik I puchased is also a dual opposed sub and works well in both HT and Music applications. Rythmik also sells components so you can DIY a sealed servo sub if you want to build your own cabinets. But, the dayton subs in a correctly constructed enclosure will be more than adequate! Just thought you would like to do a bit of research on another bit of technology.

 

[MediumRare]

It’s not what you asked, but you are likely to have a far greater audible improvement if you add a second sub. You didn’t mention how big your room is, but nulls and resonances are more likely the source of your dissatisfaction. A second sub will also reduce the power and output requirement for your first sub, likely dramatically lowering distortion. So, worth considering before a big project that might not improve anything.

 

[gatestick]

This is my second sub. My first one is a Cerwin Vega LW15. This is a 7.2.4 system. I am trying to build something that likely is not possible. I have a very limited budget and am wanting to build something similar to the SVS ultra 16. I have had to do this in stages due to the budget, plus I like building things. My room is difficult to explain. It is L shaped with full low pile rubber backed carpet that goes up the wall behind the front stage. Wood paneling with syrofoam insulation on the rest of the walls. This is a cinder block wall basement. There is a stairwell that is also carpeted. I did not include this in the measurement as I didn't really know how. My space is where the wife puts all of the things she wants to do later and also has my 6 year old's toys and a train table (pool table). So the clutter changes hourly. The main L shape is 5550 cubic feet.

 

[gatestick]

I did a lot of measurements with REW yesterday on the 2 subs. I am very new to this and likely was not doing things correctly. With near field measurements I was happy to se my DIY sub with the 12 outperforms my Cerwin Vega 15. at least with spl and the the smoothness of the graph. I haven't figured out how to interpret the distortion and other graphs yet. I also did some measurements from the seating position and the DIY outperforms there as well. I am surprised at how much the near field to seating position measurements are different. I have a couple of holes to fill and a peak to chop off. I am unable to do this yet as I haven't received the mini dsp 2x4HD yet. Overall I am very happy with the sound. In a way, ignorance is bliss. I didn't realize there was an issue until I saw the graph. This graph if it comes through is both subs no audyssey after gain matching at the listening position.

 

[MediumRare]

I did a lot of measurements with REW yesterday on the 2 subs. I am very new to this and likely was not doing things correctly. With near field measurements I was happy to se my DIY sub with the 12 outperforms my Cerwin Vega 15. at least with spl and the the smoothness of the graph. I haven't figured out how to interpret the distortion and other graphs yet. I also did some measurements from the seating position and the DIY outperforms there as well. I am surprised at how much the near field to seating position measurements are different. I have a couple of holes to fill and a peak to chop off. I am unable to do this yet as I haven't received the mini dsp 2x4HD yet. Overall I am very happy with the sound. In a way, ignorance is bliss. I didn't realize there was an issue until I saw the graph. This graph if it comes through is both subs no audyssey after gain matching at the listening position.

Actually, that looks like a good start. A few things: 1. The seating position measurement takes into account the room modes, nodes and anti-nodes - that is the essential thing you are looking for. 2. Use 1/6 or pyschoacoustic smoothing, ignore the raw graph. 3. The deep troughs will be mostly from room anti-nodes and are not directly fixable, so ignore those for now. 4. Check the distortion tab (it takes time to calculate once you open it). You'll see if you are over-driving your subs the distortion increases. Most of the time you shouldn't need to have your sibs that loud on a sustained basis. 5. Once you have the subs themselves corrected for buzzing cabinets, etc., run them with your mains - you'll be looking to A. get the volume in balance B. manage the crossover points and curve and C. Change the location/phase of your sub to minimize the null at the crossover point. 6. LAST - use the EQ to knock down the peaks, that will actually help fill in the anti-nodes too. It's a lot of fiddling but it's all worth it.

 

[gatestick]

Thank you for the advice. I received the 2x4hd and will wire it in sometime today hopefully. I have not figured out how to read the distortion graphs yet. I have low THD % numbers when measured individually, They get quite high when I add the second sub, then the towers. I am thinking the time alignment is off. Or at least this is the first thing I was going to work on after putting in the 2x4HD. My plan was to align the 2 subs to each other, then to the bottom octaves of the towers. I don't think this is the proper place to post a graph of the waveforms for analysis but i am going to attempt do do 1 of the THD distortion graph. No promises, i have never done this before. This is a screen shot. is it possible to post a working file that other users can manipulate the data on?

 

[gatestick]

Well, life has gotten in the way of upgrading to the ultimax so far but I will purchase it after Easter. Then I hope the weather will cooperate to modify the box and install it.

Chrapladm had mentioned that my dayton amp may not be powerful enough. What are the thoughts on crown amps for subs? I thought I might get the big 1 and use it to run each sub on 1 channel at 4 ohms. Just a thought. I can't seem to find plate amps at 1000 wats or more in class D.

 

[gatestick]

I got the sub. Now I just need some time and good weather. The pic shows the old sub sitting by the new 1.

 

[gatestick]

Started dreaming about the next project. The wife needed to take the book case my center channel was sitting on. I thought this might be a good excuse to build a transmission line box with an Ultimax 18. I have never done a t-line. Any thoughts about any of this?

 

[gatestick]

I got the 15 Ultimax put in the box this weekend. All I can say is WOW. My ceiling tiles were moving. Huge difference considering it is the same box and amp. I highly recommend the ultimax 15 inch subwoofer. Thanks everyone for the advice and information.

 

[gatestick]

Update. I have finally upgraded the Cerwin Vega driver with the Ultimax 15. I also purchased a Crown XLI 3500 Amplifier to drive these subs. It is great. One problem. I have always had a slight ground loop hum since I had an electrician install 3 - 20 amp circuits to the theater. 1 for the projector, 2 for the equipment rack. This amp picks up on that more than the Dayton did. This amp is 4 to 5 times the power of the Dayton which means the hum is 4 to 5 times louder. I have found if I unplug either the HDMI or the power cable to the Epson 5040ub projector the hum is gone. I have no idea how to fix this. I put a cheater plug on the projector, and this reduced the hum by about 1/2. I am using this as an opportunity to organize the spaghetti of wires behind the equipment rack. Any advice would be appreciated.

 

[MediumRare]

Update. I have finally upgraded the Cerwin Vega driver with the Ultimax 15. I also purchased a Crown XLI 3500 Amplifier to drive these subs. It is great. One problem. I have always had a slight ground loop hum since I had an electrician install 3 - 20 amp circuits to the theater. 1 for the projector, 2 for the equipment rack. This amp picks up on that more than the Dayton did. This amp is 4 to 5 times the power of the Dayton which means the hum is 4 to 5 times louder. I have found if I unplug either the HDMI or the power cable to the Epson 5040ub projector the hum is gone. I have no idea how to fix this. I put a cheater plug on the projector, and this reduced the hum by about 1/2. I am using this as an opportunity to organize the spaghetti of wires behind the equipment rack. Any advice would be appreciated.

The problem is the separate circuits - the hum is from the different ground potentials of the multiple circuits. So try to get all the audio components on one circuit. You can try putting the items with a floating ground on the "other" circuit. Do you have any components with balanced outputs? You could try to offload them onto the other circuit if you need to find capacity. Still, 20 amps is a lot. How many amplifiers pulling serious amperage do you have running at once?

 

[gatestick]

2 amps pull large amounts of current, 1 more for the Atmos speakers. I imagine it is lower on the current side. The Crown and Monolith 7x are at the limit of 1 circuit at 20 amps. It tripped the breaker 1 time. Using xlr cables with the Monolith. The Atmos speakers are driven by an old Yamaha rx-z9 receiver. The projector is on 1 circuit. The Crown and Monolith on the second circuit. The Yamaha and all other components are on the third.

 

[gatestick]

I got the power wires moved to the other side of the stud away from the speaker, signal and internet cables. I also ran a circuit to the projector location off of the back of the outlet. This will put all components on the same circuit. No phase difference issues. The 2 outlets were on different phases from each other. I do not know how to change that. I used a lab scope to confirm, but did not take a photo. The pic is of the 110 volt waveform at the outlet. The down side of the wave looks to me like it is noisy. I checked this at many other outlets in my home. All look identical. Including what comes out of my Panamax AC 5500 A/C Regenerator. This is not my scope and may just be what the display can show. It is from 1995. However, if I was to see this in an automotive computer circuit it would indicate a problem. Everything is on 1 circuit now. luckily I used 10 AWG wire when I ran the circuits. This allowed me to bump up to a 30 amp breaker. This circuit breaker has not tripped so far. The problem is that after doing all of this the noise is still there. Anyone have any other ideas for me to test out?

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