CD Player/Amp Advice

Nordo

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Preamp, Processor or Receiver
Denon AVR X1500H
Additional Amp
Sub amp - Behringer EP2500
Universal / Blu-ray / CD Player
Panasoic BD35
Front Speakers
DIY
Center Channel Speaker
DIY
Surround Speakers
DIY
Surround Back Speakers
DIY
Front Height Speakers
-
Rear Height Speakers
-
Subwoofers
Four 15" infinite baffle drivers
Other Speakers or Equipment
HTPC (windows 10 with Kodi)
Video Display Device
Epson EMP-TW2000 projector
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Matt white "blockout" curtain liner
I currently have a 10 year old Pioneer PD-M427 6 sticker CD player. The DAC is PD2026B.
The player is analogue connected to a 40 year old Cambridge A60 integrated amp.

I am in the middle of building some good quality transmission line speakers. Probably with a sensitivity of 82-85 dB.

I am now thinking that I should also be looking at updating my player and amp. But that would be an expense I have not allowed for, so I'm on a budget (best bang- for- buck).

I need suggestions for a player/amp combinations with a good sound and DAC for a total budget under $1000au ($600us).
Alternatively, if you think the existing equipment isn't too bad, maybe I should be just looking at an external DAC?

Any help would be appreciated.
 
Last edited:

dsnyder0cnn

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Nov 28, 2017
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This stack from Topping would be a rather dramatic increase in sound quality over what you have:


I guess it depends on how loud you listen. According to tests over at ASR, the PA5 is clean up to 48 watts into 8Ω or 83 watts into 4Ω. That's not a ton less than what you have now with the A60 (less than 1 dB difference in peak output, if my math is right), so perhaps it would be fine.

Nice thing about this solution is that you can later add a Raspberry Pi (assuming they are ever in stock again) and dip a toe into streaming. :)
 

Nordo

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Thread Starter
Joined
Oct 7, 2019
Messages
137
More  
Preamp, Processor or Receiver
Denon AVR X1500H
Additional Amp
Sub amp - Behringer EP2500
Universal / Blu-ray / CD Player
Panasoic BD35
Front Speakers
DIY
Center Channel Speaker
DIY
Surround Speakers
DIY
Surround Back Speakers
DIY
Front Height Speakers
-
Rear Height Speakers
-
Subwoofers
Four 15" infinite baffle drivers
Other Speakers or Equipment
HTPC (windows 10 with Kodi)
Video Display Device
Epson EMP-TW2000 projector
Screen
Matt white "blockout" curtain liner
Thanks dsnyder0cnn.
That's a great pairing.
I'll have to find out some information about my CD player (low noise, transport, etc.) to make sure it doesn't become the weak link.
Thanks again.
 

dsnyder0cnn

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I'll have to find out some information about my CD player (low noise, transport, etc.) to make sure it doesn't become the weak link.
That's one of the nice things about these new DACs. Upstream jitter or noise is not much of a concern. The DAC will reclock the input signal, so as long as you have a reasonable digital output and decent 75Ω COAX S/PDIF cable, you should be good to go until the laser fails.
 

Nordo

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Joined
Oct 7, 2019
Messages
137
More  
Preamp, Processor or Receiver
Denon AVR X1500H
Additional Amp
Sub amp - Behringer EP2500
Universal / Blu-ray / CD Player
Panasoic BD35
Front Speakers
DIY
Center Channel Speaker
DIY
Surround Speakers
DIY
Surround Back Speakers
DIY
Front Height Speakers
-
Rear Height Speakers
-
Subwoofers
Four 15" infinite baffle drivers
Other Speakers or Equipment
HTPC (windows 10 with Kodi)
Video Display Device
Epson EMP-TW2000 projector
Screen
Matt white "blockout" curtain liner
Are you saying you prefer Coax over optical fibre?
I've always used optical fibre when available, as I always thought it would transfer the cleaner signal.
 

dsnyder0cnn

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Are you saying you prefer Coax over optical fibre?
I've always used optical fibre when available, as I always thought it would transfer the cleaner signal.
COAX S/PDIF has significantly lower inherent jitter than TOSLINK. This is less consequential with modern DACs that reclock the signal, but TOSLINK can have other limitations too. For example, some implementations limit TOSLINK to 24-bits, 96 kHz while COAX S/PDIF is capable of 24-bits, 192 kHz and, in some cases, DSD64 over DoP.

This page describes what Allo discovered when designing a digital output to be used with Raspberry Pi computers:


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
We started designing a digital (S/PDIF) transport for RPI with one goal in mind: Absolut best S/PDIF output.

Now let me explain… behind the grandiose wording there is an exact science. Since this is a digital stream the most important aspect for "absolut best" is jitter. Jitter in digital domain directly translates into analog errors. Second, is noise. Lowering the noise that’s injected in your DAC will produce some (small-to-none) improvements.

Then we went to work.

10 LDOs, 12 LPF, DC/DC convertors, galvanic isolator, WM8805, flip flops, buffers, NDK oscillators.

Optical had to go… by definition it has a jitter of 4ns. That’s 4000ps. We simply removed it. However, optical has galvanic isolation so we took the decision to use a digital isolator instead that separates the outputs from both RPI and WM8805.

DigiOne has 2 outputs: BNC and plain RCA (coaxial). On both, we have achieved jitter of 0.6ps (1 picosecond – time taken by light in a vacuum to travel approximately 0.30 mm).

Noise. 50uV (batteries have about 12uV of noise).

What we achieved, in our opinion and based on public measurements, is the best transport at any price point (yes, even when compared with 5k USD/EUR transports).
 

Nordo

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Thread Starter
Joined
Oct 7, 2019
Messages
137
More  
Preamp, Processor or Receiver
Denon AVR X1500H
Additional Amp
Sub amp - Behringer EP2500
Universal / Blu-ray / CD Player
Panasoic BD35
Front Speakers
DIY
Center Channel Speaker
DIY
Surround Speakers
DIY
Surround Back Speakers
DIY
Front Height Speakers
-
Rear Height Speakers
-
Subwoofers
Four 15" infinite baffle drivers
Other Speakers or Equipment
HTPC (windows 10 with Kodi)
Video Display Device
Epson EMP-TW2000 projector
Screen
Matt white "blockout" curtain liner
Just an update.

I've narrowed my proposed CD player down to Marantz CD6007 or Denon DCD-600NE (Denon is half the price of the Marantz).
My understanding is that both have modern well reviewed onboard DACs.
Please butt in if you think otherwise.

So now I'm after suggestions for an integrated amp.
I don't really want to spend money on onboard extras that I don't want - phono stage and DAC.
It's only for home listening in our living room, so 40 - 60w per channel should be enough.
But obviously I want something that would do justice to the new CD player (and my new speakers).
 

dsnyder0cnn

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Joined
Nov 28, 2017
Messages
76
Just an update.

I've narrowed my proposed CD player down to Marantz CD6007 or Denon DCD-600NE (Denon is half the price of the Marantz).
My understanding is that both have modern well reviewed onboard DACs.
Please butt in if you think otherwise.

So now I'm after suggestions for an integrated amp.
I don't really want to spend money on onboard extras that I don't want - phono stage and DAC.
It's only for home listening in our living room, so 40 - 60w per channel should be enough.
But obviously I want something that would do justice to the new CD player (and my new speakers).
I've not found much data on the DACs in either CD player. I guess my only concern is that this feels like a system that one would aspire to build 20-30 years ago but probably not today. Neither CD player has a digital input, so you can't use their internal DAC with another digital source, like a network streamer. I guess you can add an external DAC later, but if your Pioneer PD-M427 CD player is still working, why not keep it and go with an external DAC now?
 

ddude003

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PrimaLuna Dialogue Premium TubePre (2 channel+sub)
Main Amp
McIntosh MC152 SS Amp (2 channel)
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Computer Audio
MacBook Pro, Custom i7 7700k De-lid 2xAsus1080ti GFX Audirvana Studio, Hang Loose Convolver, Pulsar Massive & 8200, LiquidSonics, SoX
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Video Display Device
Samsung The Premiere LSP7T UST Laser Projector
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Streaming Equipment
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Streaming Subscriptions
QoBuz Studio Premier, Amazon Prime & Netflix
Other Equipment
ThrowRug, SaddleBlankets, WideBand & Bass Traps...
Here is another thought... If you don't already have a CD/DVD/BlyRay drive in your HTPC add one on the cheap (<$150.00)... Rip your CDs to the HTPC and stream instead of spinning... Or put your CD library on a jump drive if you don't want to stream from your HTPC over ethernet or wifi... Keep your current kit and add a Bluesound Node 2i...
 
Last edited:

Nordo

Member
Thread Starter
Joined
Oct 7, 2019
Messages
137
More  
Preamp, Processor or Receiver
Denon AVR X1500H
Additional Amp
Sub amp - Behringer EP2500
Universal / Blu-ray / CD Player
Panasoic BD35
Front Speakers
DIY
Center Channel Speaker
DIY
Surround Speakers
DIY
Surround Back Speakers
DIY
Front Height Speakers
-
Rear Height Speakers
-
Subwoofers
Four 15" infinite baffle drivers
Other Speakers or Equipment
HTPC (windows 10 with Kodi)
Video Display Device
Epson EMP-TW2000 projector
Screen
Matt white "blockout" curtain liner
I've not found much data on the DACs in either CD player. I guess my only concern is that this feels like a system that one would aspire to build 20-30 years ago but probably not today. Neither CD player has a digital input, so you can't use their internal DAC with another digital source, like a network streamer. I guess you can add an external DAC later, but if your Pioneer PD-M427 CD player is still working, why not keep it and go with an external DAC now?
I'm not sure of the specs of my Pioneer PD-M427 CD player (drive quality, S/N, etc), but you keep making a lot of sense.
By keeping my CD player (and amp for the time being), and just add an external DAC, it makes a lot of sense.
EDIT - I just realised that the Pioneer CD player only has R and L analogue outputs (RCA).

But maybe I should be looking at separates - CD transport only and a stand-alone DAC?
I'm just trying to get best bang-for-buck for what is really a system for casual listening. I'm not an audiophile.:rolleyesno:
 

ddude003

AV Addict
Joined
Aug 13, 2017
Messages
1,403
Location
Somewhere Northeast of Kansas City Missouri
More  
Preamp, Processor or Receiver
PrimaLuna Dialogue Premium TubePre (2 channel+sub)
Main Amp
McIntosh MC152 SS Amp (2 channel)
Additional Amp
Yamaha RX-A850 Pro (the other 5 channels lol)
Computer Audio
MacBook Pro, Custom i7 7700k De-lid 2xAsus1080ti GFX Audirvana Studio, Hang Loose Convolver, Pulsar Massive & 8200, LiquidSonics, SoX
DAC
Chord Electronics Ltd. Qutest
Universal / Blu-ray / CD Player
Sony UBP-X700 /M Ultra HD 4K HDR & PS5
Front Speakers
Martin Logan ElectroMotion ESL
Center Channel Speaker
Martin Logan Motion C2
Surround Speakers
Martin Logan Motion 4
Surround Back Speakers
Martin Logan Motion 4 (yes, another set of these)
Subwoofers
Martin Logan Dynamo 700
Other Speakers or Equipment
Cifte 12AU7 NOS & Genalex Gold Lion Tubes in Pre
Video Display Device
Samsung The Premiere LSP7T UST Laser Projector
Screen
Elite Screens Aeon CLR3 0.8 Gain 103-inch
Remote Control
PrimaLuna, Lumin iApp, Samsung & Yamaha
Streaming Equipment
Netgear Nighthawk S8000 Streaming Switch, Lumin U1 Mini Streamer Transport
Streaming Subscriptions
QoBuz Studio Premier, Amazon Prime & Netflix
Other Equipment
ThrowRug, SaddleBlankets, WideBand & Bass Traps...
I'm not an audiophile.:rolleyesno:
You don't have to be an audiophile to enjoy music streamed from your own library, free internet radio stations and/or subscription services such Qobuz and Tidal... It just takes the addition of a streamer and DAC... Connect the streamer to your home LAN/WAN and the DAC to your PreAmp or Integrated... Streamers and DACs can be combined like the Bluesound 2i I suggested above or separates like @dsnyder0cnn suggested above...
 
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