Audiolense XO Success

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SVS Ultra Bookshelf
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I use Audiolense XO, Version 6.20, with a multichannel (5.1) music system. I recently completed several sweeps and hired Mitch Barnett (Accurate Sound) to construct the filters. We've gone through three filter iterations. The last filterset sounds fantastic.

My system:
- Dedicated music server (with 4TB of high resolution, multichannel, music files, mostly classical). Windows 11.
- JRiver Media Center music player. Setup with ExaSound proprietary ASIO driver.
---- Note: JRiver will only apply filters to PCM and DXD files, not DSD. My decision was to create a "zone" to let JRiver convert DSD to PCM and then apply filters. I also have a zone to bitstream DSD files natively with no DSP filters.
- USB out to ExaSound S88 (8 channel DAC).
- XLR out (using a Y connector) to two SVS SB 13 Ultra subwoofers (rear of the room).
- XLR out to Parasound A52+ amplifier.
- Bluejeans 12 gauge speaker wire out to 3 Spatial Audio X3 speakers (L, C, R) up front and two SVS Ultra bookshelf speakers (Right Rear and Left Rear) in the back of the room.
---- Spatial X3s are "open baffle" 8 Ohm, 97 dB sensitive, and include a powered subwoofer.
---- SVS Bookshelf speakers are 4 Ohm, and 87 dB sensitive.

Audiolense XO Setup:
- I use a 5.1 setup.
- Personally, I made sure all speakers had the same volume at the MLP with a dB meter. I used the ExaSound trim dashboard and test tones from JRiver MC with master volume at 0. See "trim settings" screenshot.
- Measurement setup included selecting ExaSound 8 channel ASIO driver, switching to direct sound and selecting separate "play and recording" streams. See "measurement setup" screenshot.
- Check Speaker connections required changing channel outputs to make sure sound is coming out of the correct speaker. See "speaker connections" screenshot which includes my speaker setup configuration.

Results:
- discovered the subwoofer volume in each of the front three speakers was different. Running sweeps and adjusting the subwoofer volume in each speaker solved the issue. Whew, I was nervous I would have to move the speakers around.
- The next few sweep iterations were all similar and Mitch decided to employ a 30 Hz crossover on the front three speakers and a 90 Hz crossover on the two rear SVS bookshelf speakers.
- The simulated result from Mitch was a ruler flat response.
- I created JRiver zones so I could switch, at the MLP, between playing music with and without using Mitch's filter set. Over time, I preferred the sound with the filterset engaged (including the converted DSD files).

Bottom line: I've struggled with room measurements for years. Speaker positioning and system setup plus a few GIK acoustic panels got me to a good place. Audiolense XO setup was not terribly hard. Most important, the program works! Now, with the filters in place, I feel the sound is at the best point possible. Truly marvelous!

I hope you found this information helpful.

Marcus

Trim Settings

Measurement setup

Speaker connections
 
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Thread Starter
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Messages
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Location
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Preamp, Processor or Receiver
Marantz AV8805
Main Amp
Parasound Halo A52+
Additional Amp
Outlaw 755
Computer Audio
J River Media Center
Universal / Blu-ray / CD Player
Panasonic UB820
Front Speakers
SVS Ultra Bookshelf
Center Channel Speaker
SVS Ultra Center
Surround Speakers
SVS Ultra Surround
Front Height Speakers
SVS Elevation
Rear Height Speakers
SVS Elevation
Subwoofers
Dual SVS SB13 Ultra with Amp upgrade
Video Display Device
BenQ LK990
Screen
DaLite 160 inch Diagonal
Streaming Equipment
Nvidia Shield Pro
Here are a few photos of my room (all from the MLP). The specific listening (home theater) area is 15 feet wide by 30 feet long. But, this is part of a "great room (including kitchen and dining area) which makes the entire space 40 feet wide. Ceiling is vaulted 11 feet up to 14 feet.
-- Front speakers are 5 feet out from the front wall.

Marcus

Front View

Side View

Rear View
 
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kevinzoe

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Marcus,
Congrats on your new AL XO setup!! Mitch is a great asset to our audiophile community, isn't he?
Great looking room and gear by the way. How do you enjoy your Spatial Audio speakers? Nice to see that you pulled them 5feet from the front wall to allow that all important ~10ms delay to occur. I do the same thing with my SoundLab electrostatics.
I also have a 8 channel DAC from exaSound which I consider foundational to leveraging AL XO for individualized speaker level corrections. I also run JRiver DSP Studio to convolve the FIR filter, assign channels and raise the overall volume to compensate for the filter insertion loss that AL produces.
So which target curve did you select as "best to your ear?" Was it a customized one or one based on industry standards such as Harmon or Bob Katz etc?
 

Ofer

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@Marcus DiBenedetto, very impressive.
Can you post some before and after measurements (it's a classic)?
Another question. Do you only use Jriver or also other apps like Netflix and local TV channels? If the latter do you pass everything through JRiver to get convolution?
Also the subs play a relativly low band with 10-30hz. What filter width did you choose between the speakers and the subs?
 
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Front Speakers
SVS Ultra Bookshelf
Center Channel Speaker
SVS Ultra Center
Surround Speakers
SVS Ultra Surround
Front Height Speakers
SVS Elevation
Rear Height Speakers
SVS Elevation
Subwoofers
Dual SVS SB13 Ultra with Amp upgrade
Video Display Device
BenQ LK990
Screen
DaLite 160 inch Diagonal
Streaming Equipment
Nvidia Shield Pro
Marcus,
Congrats on your new AL XO setup!! Mitch is a great asset to our audiophile community, isn't he?

Absolutely! He's been wonderful to work with and extremely patient with me.

Great looking room and gear by the way. How do you enjoy your Spatial Audio speakers? Nice to see that you pulled them 5feet from the front wall to allow that all important ~10ms delay to occur. I do the same thing with my SoundLab electrostatics.

I absolutely LOVE the speakers. The soundstage and depth are superb. Instrument and vocal clarity puts the performance in the room with me. For anyone interested, Spatial Audio has a thread on Audio Circle. I also have a thread there about Demonstration Worthy Classical Music.

I also have a 8 channel DAC from exaSound which I consider foundational to leveraging AL XO for individualized speaker level corrections. I also run JRiver DSP Studio to convolve the FIR filter, assign channels and raise the overall volume to compensate for the filter insertion loss that AL produces.
So which target curve did you select as "best to your ear?" Was it a customized one or one based on industry standards such as Harmon or Bob Katz etc?

Mitch and I discussed target curves, but I am happy with his straight line frequency response. He seems to feel what I have now with his 3rd filterset is a great in-room response. I agree. For me, after listening for several hours yesterday and so far today, absolutely no listening fatigue. The music is inviting and "real". Once you get your room set up and employ DSP, you can relax and just enjoy the music.

Marcus
 
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Thread Starter
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Marantz AV8805
Main Amp
Parasound Halo A52+
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Outlaw 755
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J River Media Center
Universal / Blu-ray / CD Player
Panasonic UB820
Front Speakers
SVS Ultra Bookshelf
Center Channel Speaker
SVS Ultra Center
Surround Speakers
SVS Ultra Surround
Front Height Speakers
SVS Elevation
Rear Height Speakers
SVS Elevation
Subwoofers
Dual SVS SB13 Ultra with Amp upgrade
Video Display Device
BenQ LK990
Screen
DaLite 160 inch Diagonal
Streaming Equipment
Nvidia Shield Pro
@Marcus DiBenedetto, very impressive.
Can you post some before and after measurements (it's a classic)?
Another question. Do you only use Jriver or also other apps like Netflix and local TV channels? If the latter do you pass everything through JRiver to get convolution?
Also the subs play a relativly low band with 10-30hz. What filter width did you choose between the speakers and the subs?


Let me see if I can locate the measurement and Mitch's simulated response.

The system I described above is dedicated to music only. I have a 4K BluRay player, another computer for ripped movies and an NVidia Shield for streaming. They each connect via HDMI to my Marantz pre/pro. I use Audyssey to provide room correction. Good enough for movies & streaming.

Almost all classical music comes 5.0 so nothing goes to the LFE channel. However, I do play some music with very low organ notes. The crossover helps. When JRiver mixes music (i.e., DSD to PCM) it will mix to an LFE channel. The subs play any music that includes an LFE channel, per normal

Marcus.
 

mccarty350

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Messages
52
Marcus I'm a big open baffle fan. Those are some nice looking speakers and the drivers look like they are off the shelf (you can see the vendors like eminence, etc. on the back of the drivers) and would be easy to replicate. I have some Linkwitz LX521.4's so I love me some open baffles. 97 db efficiency is crazy good for open baffles, I wonder if they're advertising that number based on what the drivers in theory should be able to do vs the realty of what they'd achieve in an open baffle with backwave sound cancellation but in general they seem impressive. I guess I'm not surprised you picked a flat curve with Mitch, when I've been tinkering with various mechanisms (before I had XO) I could NEVER tolerate a flat response without significant listener fatigue unless the tweeter was a ribbon/amt/planar type design. In those cases the drivers were so incredibly smooth that flat response curves weren't fatiguing. I bet your system sounds amazing.
 
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SVS Ultra Bookshelf
Center Channel Speaker
SVS Ultra Center
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SVS Ultra Surround
Front Height Speakers
SVS Elevation
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SVS Elevation
Subwoofers
Dual SVS SB13 Ultra with Amp upgrade
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BenQ LK990
Screen
DaLite 160 inch Diagonal
Streaming Equipment
Nvidia Shield Pro
Follow up:

I've used Mitch's 3rd (and final) filterset for several days now. Since I'm retired, I had plenty of time to listen to music. I'm completely satisfied using the filterset. The changes are subtle but impressive. The filterset improves the full range of frequencies. We discussed limiting DSP correction to lower frequencies. We also discussed boosting the bass frequencies. In the end, I went with Mitch's recommendation for a flat and full range set of DSP filters. What I've noticed is increased clarity of individual instruments and their location in the soundstage, width and depth. Vocals, solo and choir, have always been excellent with my speakers and continue to be stellar.

My measurements looked good right from the start.
- My listening space is in a large room which I believe helps.
- No right side wall so I compensated on the left wall with heavy blackout drapes and a couple GIK absorber panels. I needed these to darken the room for home theater movies anyway.
- The left speaker is 21 inches from the left side wall. The speaker designer, Clayton Shaw, recommends a minimum of 18 inches to allow for the open baffle side cancellation.
- All three front speakers sit on GAIA II isolation feet with spikes. Floor has a thick carpet with a pad.
- Behind the front speakers, on the front wall, are GIK 6 inch absorber/diffusion panels. Again, recommended by Clayton Shaw.
- Moving the speakers around for over a year led me to not use any toe-in for best soundstage width and depth.
- I have GIK 6 inch absorber/diffusion panels on my rear wall. I can't say if they help as they are 25 feet back from the speakers. But, heck, I own them so I use them.
- Measurements showed most issues are below 100 Hz, as expected.
- Nice to find the SVS SB Ultra 13 subwoofers work well down to a teeth rattling 10 Hz. I had previously installed the amplifier upgrade from SVS. This was a huge improvement for the subwoofers. The front three speakers are crossed over at 30 Hz to the subwoofers.
- The rear two SVS Ultra Bookshelves looked good. I had previously built a new crossover for both speakers using Danny's (GR Research) design and parts. We cross them over at 90 Hz to the SVS subwoofers. This matches the front three speakers which have a 90 Hz crossover from their mid range driver to their subwoofers.
- Left and Right speakers are 10 feet apart and 10 feet to the MLP.

Bottom line, as I have heard over the years, if you begin with a properly set up system DSP does not have to work so hard to make corrections. This was my goal before hiring Mitch.

Here are the "simulated" results from Mitch using his 3rd filterset and his comments to me. "... you are getting an excellent response, both in the frequency and time domain. Technically, you are getting the ideal minimum phase response to your ears without any frequency or time domain distortions. ...That is an awesome open baffle system you have there, and the correction filters fully optimize what you have. I bet it sounds pretty good."

To be honest, I don't understand it but I know it works. That's why Mitch is the DSP designer and I'm the consumer (LOL).

Here's the "simulated" Frequency response and Step response with Mitch's filters.
 

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Is it possible to use the AL XO for a 2.2 setup with xlr-splitters between my preamp and amp so the same signal goes to the frontleft speaker and the left sub and viceversa the rightfront speaker and the right sub.

I am considering active xrossovers but is it possible to achieve a good result with my setup and AL XO?

sorry if im hijacking your thread =)
 

juicehifi

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Yes. I expect a seamless integration with regards to time and frequency response.
 

Badbruno

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Here are a few photos of my room (all from the MLP). The specific listening (home theater) area is 15 feet wide by 30 feet long. But, this is part of a "great room (including kitchen and dining area) which makes the entire space 40 feet wide. Ceiling is vaulted 11 feet up to 14 feet.
-- Front speakers are 5 feet out from the front wall.

Marcus

View attachment 53729

View attachment 53730

View attachment 53731
Follow up:

I've used Mitch's 3rd (and final) filterset for several days now. Since I'm retired, I had plenty of time to listen to music. I'm completely satisfied using the filterset. The changes are subtle but impressive. The filterset improves the full range of frequencies. We discussed limiting DSP correction to lower frequencies. We also discussed boosting the bass frequencies. In the end, I went with Mitch's recommendation for a flat and full range set of DSP filters. What I've noticed is increased clarity of individual instruments and their location in the soundstage, width and depth. Vocals, solo and choir, have always been excellent with my speakers and continue to be stellar.

My measurements looked good right from the start.
- My listening space is in a large room which I believe helps.
- No right side wall so I compensated on the left wall with heavy blackout drapes and a couple GIK absorber panels. I needed these to darken the room for home theater movies anyway.
- The left speaker is 21 inches from the left side wall. The speaker designer, Clayton Shaw, recommends a minimum of 18 inches to allow for the open baffle side cancellation.
- All three front speakers sit on GAIA II isolation feet with spikes. Floor has a thick carpet with a pad.
- Behind the front speakers, on the front wall, are GIK 6 inch absorber/diffusion panels. Again, recommended by Clayton Shaw.
- Moving the speakers around for over a year led me to not use any toe-in for best soundstage width and depth.
- I have GIK 6 inch absorber/diffusion panels on my rear wall. I can't say if they help as they are 25 feet back from the speakers. But, heck, I own them so I use them.
- Measurements showed most issues are below 100 Hz, as expected.
- Nice to find the SVS SB Ultra 13 subwoofers work well down to a teeth rattling 10 Hz. I had previously installed the amplifier upgrade from SVS. This was a huge improvement for the subwoofers. The front three speakers are crossed over at 30 Hz to the subwoofers.
- The rear two SVS Ultra Bookshelves looked good. I had previously built a new crossover for both speakers using Danny's (GR Research) design and parts. We cross them over at 90 Hz to the SVS subwoofers. This matches the front three speakers which have a 90 Hz crossover from their mid range driver to their subwoofers.
- Left and Right speakers are 10 feet apart and 10 feet to the MLP.

Bottom line, as I have heard over the years, if you begin with a properly set up system DSP does not have to work so hard to make corrections. This was my goal before hiring Mitch.

Here are the "simulated" results from Mitch using his 3rd filterset and his comments to me. "... you are getting an excellent response, both in the frequency and time domain. Technically, you are getting the ideal minimum phase response to your ears without any frequency or time domain distortions. ...That is an awesome open baffle system you have there, and the correction filters fully optimize what you have. I bet it sounds pretty good."

To be honest, I don't understand it but I know it works. That's why Mitch is the DSP designer and I'm the consumer (LOL).

Here's the "simulated" Frequency response and Step response with Mitch's filters.
Hi Marcus , great post and very relaxant to my project. I’m a open baffle guy also, modified Emerald Physics speakers. I started with a DQX for the DSP and was really happy with the results. But it’s a closed system and could not load sophisticated Audiolense FIRs. So I’m getting organized to drop in an ExaSound S88 driven by Mac mini M1. I’ll study your posts
Thanks again
 
Thread Starter
Joined
May 11, 2019
Messages
70
Location
Las Vegas, NV
More  
Preamp, Processor or Receiver
Marantz AV8805
Main Amp
Parasound Halo A52+
Additional Amp
Outlaw 755
Computer Audio
J River Media Center
Universal / Blu-ray / CD Player
Panasonic UB820
Front Speakers
SVS Ultra Bookshelf
Center Channel Speaker
SVS Ultra Center
Surround Speakers
SVS Ultra Surround
Front Height Speakers
SVS Elevation
Rear Height Speakers
SVS Elevation
Subwoofers
Dual SVS SB13 Ultra with Amp upgrade
Video Display Device
BenQ LK990
Screen
DaLite 160 inch Diagonal
Streaming Equipment
Nvidia Shield Pro
Good Luck! I love my S88 DAC. Mitch Barnett created my filters because I didn't even want to attempt it. Audiolense XO worked perfect.
 

Badbruno

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Universal / Blu-ray / CD Player
VPI Prime turntable
Front Speakers
Custom open baffle 3 way
Subwoofers
Velodyne DD12+
Streaming Equipment
Roon
Streaming Subscriptions
Roon Quobuz
Good Luck! I love my S88 DAC. Mitch Barnett created my filters because I didn't even want to attempt it. Audiolense XO worked perfect.
Are you using HQPlayer that’s built into S88 DAC with Roon for convolver
 
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