Adding an external amp to your receiver is a good idea

[Tony V.]

Its been discussed alot and I think the general consensus is that adding an external amp to power the mains is a very good idea.
Note: not all receivers have pre outs allowing for this ability. Sad really as lower end receivers could benefit dramatically from this feature even if they only had pre outs for the mains

On the other forum I did a fairly deep search looking at bench tests done on several receivers and it was quite clear that most receivers are simply not up to the task of running all 5 or more channels at reference levels. The big bottleneck was caused by the size of the power supply in most of them, it was simply not able to power all the on board amps to their full output causing distortion long before the amps themselves reached their maximum output.

I myself have experienced this on my now shelved Sherwood Newcastle R972, this distortion was heard as it reached it limits long before it really should have and I am certain that the smaller power supply in it was the cause. If you compared that to my older Onkyo 805 (bench tested to output over 185watts per ch) that has a monster power supply.

Ive been running an external amp ever since in my theater room and even with my mains being over 90db efficient I can tell they have alot more breathing room than when running on the receivers amps.

Im open to thoughts and look forward to some good discussion here.

 

[Asere]

Wow, the 805 is 185 per ch? I may try the 805 again if I can get Audyssey this time on it with my xt32 on the 4200. The last time it killed the bass.

 

[Tony V.]

See bench test here for the 805. It was remarkable.

On your 805 make sure you do a full reset of it so it clears any settings that could change the EQ and use the analog direct inputs for the left and right channels.

 

[Asere]

See bench test here for the 805. It was remarkable.

On your 805 make sure you do a full reset of it so it clears any settings that could change the EQ and use the analog direct inputs for the left and right channels.

I will thanks! That's right I remember reading the bench test many years ago. I just recently saw a spec of 130w somewhere. That's an incredible amount of power for a receiver. Maybe I read wrong on the other thread on this topic but did you feel your 805 fell short in power that you had to use a Samson 600 or are you using it with another receiver?

 

[Tony V.]

I just had the amp laying around so I used it. The 805 never displayed any signs of struggle it just ran hot. I know that Sonnie still uses his today in his living room. Mine is also up in my living room now.
For a short time I tried the Serwood Newcastle R972 in my theater room and although sounded good lacked a bit of power and the querks it had were anoyning. The firmware did fix most of them but I eneded up going back to the 805 and put the 972 in the livingroom. I have since upgraded to a Onkyo RZ920 in the theater and have just kept the external amp in service.

 

[Asere]

I just had the amp laying around so I used it. The 805 never displayed any signs of struggle it just ran hot. I know that Sonnie still uses his today in his living room. Mine is also up in my living room now.
For a short time I tried the Serwood Newcastle R972 in my theater room and although sounded good lacked a bit of power and the querks it had were anoyning. The firmware did fix most of them but I eneded up going back to the 805 and put the 972 in the livingroom. I have since upgraded to a Onkyo RZ920 in the theater and have just kept the external amp in service.

How well do you like the Accueq compared to Audyssey?

 

[Tony V.]

My room in not a difficult room so my exsperience may not be as certain however it has done a great job. The bass is smooth and effortless and is as good as the 805 was. The upper frequencies seemed to also be accurate and imaging is excellent

 

[Asere]

What do you think of Parasound in particular the HCA 1500A model as far as specs goes?

 

[Tony V.]

Certainly nothing wrong with it, my only concern is it's no longer supported if you have issues but it's a solid amp for sure

 

[Asere]

Certainly nothing wrong with it, my only concern is it's no longer supported if you have issues but it's a solid amp for sure

Found one for $460 shipped but imo that's steep.

 

[Tony V.]

Don't over think this, your not going to need anything to crazy. You could go round and round without ever making a decision.

 

[Asere]

Don't over think this, your not going to need anything to crazy. You could go round and round without ever making a decision.

I know haha! This hobby is maddening sometimes.

 

[Asere]

To make sure I get it right. This is the proper connection from one avr to the other correct? It's been awhile.

 

[Tony V.]

Yes, that is correct

 

[ddude003]

Maybe this is a dumb question... Does this somehow bypass the preamp in the multi chan in on the Onkyo?

 

[Asere]

Maybe this is a dumb question... Does this somehow bypass the preamp in the multi chan in on the Onkyo?

Denon confirmed that the pre out terminals and the internal amp is live in parallel. This means that you can hook up any external amp to any pre out and the rest of the surround speakers can run on the interneal amp via speaker terminals.

 

[ddude003]

In post #13 You say: "connection from one avr to the other" and show the back of two AVRs, a Denon and a Onkyo... You highlight Pre Outs on the Denon and what looks like Multi Chan In on the Onkyo... Which leads me to ask about the Multi Chan In on the Onkyo... Does this somehow bypass the preamp on the Onkyo?

 

[Asere]

In post #13 You say: "connection from one avr to the other" and show the back of two AVRs, a Denon and a Onkyo... You highlight Pre Outs on the Denon and what looks like Multi Chan In on the Onkyo... Which leads me to ask about the Multi Chan In on the Onkyo... Does this somehow bypass the preamp on the Onkyo?

I'm not sure I'm just now learning more about amp and integrated amps and such. I think it does bypass the preamp on the Onkyo. The Onkyo needs to be on Multch Direct in order to work.

 

[ddude003]

I'm not sure I'm just now learning more about amp and integrated amps and such. I think it does bypass the preamp on the Onkyo. The Onkyo needs to be on Multch Direct in order to work.

Asere, I do not think this is correct... I have reviewed the Onkyo TX-SR805 instruction manual... Nowhere does it suggest, imply or state that the MULIT CH Input bypasses the preamp section of the AVR... You may be able to turn off all signal processing such as the various surround modes and other effects... But, that does not bypass the preamp section of the Onkyo AVR...

Here is one of several quotes from the instruction manual: "MULTI CH input: FRONT L/R, CENTER, SUB- WOOFER, SURR L/R, and SURR BACK L/R This analog multichannel input is for connecting a component with a 5.1/7.1-channel analog audio out put, such as a DVD player, DVD-Audio or SACD-capable player, or an MPEG decoder."

Can anyone explain why they think running a signal from one AVR Preamp (Denon) thru an additional AVR Preamp stage (Onkyo) with an additional volume control would be a good thing?

 

[Asere]

You may be correct. I am still new to all this. Using 2 AVR's may be why it drowned the bass when I had LCR connected to the Onkyo.
Read post 5671 info on how I was told to do it with an amp or another avr.
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/90-r...s-thread-faq-hdcp-2-2-a-190.html#post41612209

 

[Tony V.]

Can anyone explain why they think running a signal from one AVR Preamp (Denon) thru an additional AVR Preamp stage (Onkyo) with an additional volume control would be a good thing

This is no different than the gain controls on an amp. Its still a volume control. Multichannal inputs should bypass all processing as they are designed to be used for Blueray players that have analog outputs that have their own processing built in for example the OPPO units

 

[Asere]

Asere, I do not think this is correct... I have reviewed the Onkyo TX-SR805 instruction manual... Nowhere does it suggest, imply or state that the MULIT CH Input bypasses the preamp section of the AVR... You may be able to turn off all signal processing such as the various surround modes and other effects... But, that does not bypass the preamp section of the Onkyo AVR...

Here is one of several quotes from the instruction manual: "MULTI CH input: FRONT L/R, CENTER, SUB- WOOFER, SURR L/R, and SURR BACK L/R This analog multichannel input is for connecting a component with a 5.1/7.1-channel analog audio out put, such as a DVD player, DVD-Audio or SACD-capable player, or an MPEG decoder."

Can anyone explain why they think running a signal from one AVR Preamp (Denon) thru an additional AVR Preamp stage (Onkyo) with an additional volume control would be a good thing?

This is no different than the gain controls on an amp. Its still a volume control. Multichannal inputs should bypass all processing as they are designed to be used for Blueray players that have analog outputs that have their own processing built in for example the OPPO units

To be clear the x4200 can be used with the 805?

 

[Asere]

Asere, I do not think this is correct... I have reviewed the Onkyo TX-SR805 instruction manual... Nowhere does it suggest, imply or state that the MULIT CH Input bypasses the preamp section of the AVR... You may be able to turn off all signal processing such as the various surround modes and other effects... But, that does not bypass the preamp section of the Onkyo AVR...

Here is one of several quotes from the instruction manual: "MULTI CH input: FRONT L/R, CENTER, SUB- WOOFER, SURR L/R, and SURR BACK L/R This analog multichannel input is for connecting a component with a 5.1/7.1-channel analog audio out put, such as a DVD player, DVD-Audio or SACD-capable player, or an MPEG decoder."

Can anyone explain why they think running a signal from one AVR Preamp (Denon) thru an additional AVR Preamp stage (Onkyo) with an additional volume control would be a good thing?

This is what I was just told....It bypasses the ADCs, DSP, and DACs, but not the pramps.

 

[Tony V.]

To be clear the x4200 can be used with the 805?

No reason not to try. it wont damage anything.

Like I said before just do a full reset of the 805 and ensure in the menu that the mains and centre channel are running full range with no crossover.You will also need to set the volume on the 805 to "remember last setting" when you power it on. The volume will need to be set at about -15db for starters. let the Denon control the volume after that.

 

[Grayson Dere]

Its been discussed alot and I think the general consensus is that adding an external amp to power the mains is a very good idea.
Note: not all receivers have pre outs allowing for this ability. Sad really as lower end receivers could benefit dramatically from this feature even if they only had pre outs for the mains

On the other forum I did a fairly deep search looking at bench tests done on several receivers and it was quite clear that most receivers are simply not up to the task of running all 5 or more channels at reference levels. The big bottleneck was caused by the size of the power supply in most of them, it was simply not able to power all the on board amps to their full output causing distortion long before the amps themselves reached their maximum output.

I myself have experienced this on my now shelved Sherwood Newcastle R972, this distortion was heard as it reached it limits long before it really should have and I am certain that the smaller power supply in it was the cause. If you compared that to my older Onkyo 805 (bench tested to output over 185watts per ch) that has a monster power supply.

Ive been running an external amp ever since in my theater room and even with my mains being over 90db efficient I can tell they have alot more breathing room than when running on the receivers amps.

Im open to thoughts and look forward to some good discussion here.

I've also experienced positive results after adding a higher wattage Class-D amplifier to my older Integra DTR 7.8 home theater A/V receiver. My speakers kind of needed it though, being only 84-85dB sensitive. When I drove them to -6 dB of THX reference level I definitely heard some straining from the speakers before the external amp addition. Now my mains seem to never run out of steam! : ) Highly recommended, in my opinion.