2 way Danley Synergy build

Discussion in 'DIY Speakers' started by Negatron, Aug 4, 2017.

  1. Negatron

    Negatron Moderator
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    This will be my 2nd attempt at this build. My first attempt came out ok, but I want to see how it compares to the Klipsch k402 that we were trying to model it from. The first version was made out of mdf, and we learned a lot in building it. One klipsch.jpg thing we did not do that will be done on this version is we didn't do the flare. Now that I have a sample to work off of I will make sure the flare is done right. This thread most likely will have zero progress for months as we are moving the end of this month, and we will be in a rental property for 6 months or more. I might be able to make some progress, but I won't know until we are moved, and see what the situation is like financially. Once we move into our new home it should progress pretty smoothly (although it will take time to save up for the new projector, and make 4 more synergy speakers for our surrounds). This will be one of many updates for my new HT. We are currently finishing up on our 14 channel IcePower amp. We will be going with a new projector, and possibly 7 channels of the synergy horn. The screen hopefully will be at least the size I had in our Negatron Home Theater. The new HT will be called Negatron 2, and might even have a curved 2.4 aspect screen. The screen is anticipated to be the full width of whatever the front wall is. Possibly 25' wide with a 12'-14' ceiling.
     
    #1 Negatron, Aug 4, 2017
    Last edited: Aug 4, 2017
  2. chrapladm

    chrapladm Moderator
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    LOL, well look another thread to follow. :greengrin:
     
  3. Sonnie

    Sonnie Senior Admin
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    I am certainly looking forward to it.... can't believe you are going to tease us like this. :paddle:
     
  4. tesseract

    tesseract Senior Admin
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    Synergy build? You have my attention!
     
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  5. tripplej

    tripplej AV Enthusiast

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    Thanks and I can't wait to see the progress on Negatron 2.. :)

    Anxiously waiting. :)
     
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  6. Jororaitchev

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    I am not familiar with yours first project, you mention that you have used MDF,according to my modest experience the right material is "sandwich" type.
    Success!
     
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  7. Negatron

    Negatron Moderator
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    Today we listened to the k402 horn in its new cabinet with the EV DH1a driver, and it sounded great. We compared it to a smaller EV horn with the same driver with both horns being crossed over at 500hz to LA Scala bass bins. The k402 horn sound much fuller on the bottom end than the smaller EV horn driver combo. The EV horn sounds excellent, but the k402 horn takes it up another level. I want to say it sounded even better than the JBL 2360a horn did with the same driver, but that is going by how the JBL sounded in my room, and tune a few months ago. We used the same settings for the MiniDSP that we used on my JBLs, and on the smaller EV horns.

    My friend, and I now know why people make the really big horns! BIGGER HORNS SOUND EVEN BETTER! Next we will be tuning the DIY Synergy horn we made, and see how it does compared to the K402, and the EV horn.

    I am hoping it sounds better than the EV/LA Scala bass bin combo...if it does I fully expect the Klipsch 402 wood version to sound even better than the K402/LA Scala bass bin combo does. I will post up how the first Synergy compares hopefully in the next week.
     
  8. chrapladm

    chrapladm Moderator
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    Look forward to your impressions. I was looking at trying to start my version with using just a tweeter and mids. And then Xo'ing off to a single 15. That way I can start the project and wait to fund the bass drivers down the road for my project.
     
  9. Negatron

    Negatron Moderator
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    I also picked up a pair of bullet tweeters that we are going to try out to see if they will be good enough to replace our 12db shelf at 10k.
     
  10. Negatron

    Negatron Moderator
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    Today I listened to the v1 all mdf Synergy that we built...I was very surprised as to the bass output, but something didn't sound right...the horn sounded like there were veils that needed to be removed. My friend and I listed to various songs, and sometimes it sounded great, and at other times we heard resonances.

    One song stood out from the others when we heard was best described as her smacking her lips when she speaks. Has anyone else ever heard this(we did not hear it on the other channel with LA Scala bass bins, and EV horns with EV DH1a drivers)?

    When it came to the bass it appeared to go much deeper than the La Scalas setup and having a much warmer sound compared to the La Scalas. On the Dire Straits Brothers in Arms track the Man's Too Strong the Bass sounded much better than the La Scala did, and I was very impressed. The La Scala bass sounded tighter but was over powered by the Synergy bass. We are hoping after the tune is fine tuned the bass will not be overpowering the mids.

    My friend is going to run REW on it again to see he can see what might be causing it to have this effect. We are thinking part of it might be we need to turn the gain down on the woofers as there are 2 compared to the La Scalas 1.

    Conclusion so far is when it does something right it is really right, but at other times it needs something...

    We will continue to work out the bugs, and report back as to what has happened. I will also continue to work on the new horn mod, but I will not be able to compare the two as we will be moving, and v1 will be left with a friend, but I think what we learn from this will help in getting the next one tuned better.
     
    #10 Negatron, Sep 11, 2017
    Last edited: Sep 11, 2017
  11. tesseract

    tesseract Senior Admin
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    Good on you guys for using REW to guide the process. Impulse response measurements can help greatly, are you using those?
     
  12. Negatron

    Negatron Moderator
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    My friend is the one using REW.. not sure which ones he is using. I hope he makes some images of REW for uploading too. I blindly stumbled my way with the help of another, a couple of years ago. All I know how to do in there is to basically setup my crossovers with minidsp/rew.
     
  13. Negatron

    Negatron Moderator
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    We are now living in Mexico. I hope to start building some equipment very soon. I will be building a AV Rack, turntable isolation box, 2 speakers for out living room, finish up the amp, and then continue on the HT Synergy style horns. I will start individual threads for each new build and when I get to the Synergy build I will co tinue in this thread.
     
    #13 Negatron, Feb 5, 2018
    Last edited: Feb 8, 2018
  14. chrapladm

    chrapladm Moderator
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    Look forward to your progress. Interested in your 2 ways but curious of your other builds also.
     
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  15. Negatron

    Negatron Moderator
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    Yesterday I got my uprights cut for my AV rack (I am using the t channel from my old 195" screen frame as I will be going curved AT screen when I get a new projector). I am waiting on the estimate for the 1 1/2" Mesquite wood for the racks now.

    The rack will be one meter tall, and will be 3 racks connected together to make a 5' wide rack with 9 shelves total. It will also hold our 4k tv, and turntable. I was going to also have a center channel, but decided we will forgo a center channel.
     
  16. tesseract

    tesseract Senior Admin
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    Phantom center with controlled directivity mains? Yes! :flex:
     
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  17. Negatron

    Negatron Moderator
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    We are moving this week to the new house, and I will be redesigning the rack. The rack will be a bit shorter, and about 10' wide now. I am planning on topping of the rack with Cantera black marble (same as the floors). The major pain as I see it is going to be how do I hook everything up once the rack is against the wall! 10'wide is going to be heavy once loaded, and I really do not want to have it out 2' from the wall, as that takes away from my wife's floor space. Sliders...?

    I also am not happy with the way the paint is not sticking so I am going to have all the pieces blasted, and powder painted white.
     
  18. Negatron

    Negatron Moderator
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    I have some changes to the setup...
    I have...I think came up with a way to use the AT screen, and have a center channel. The screen is 15' wide, and the room is 19` wide...if I put some rails on the sides, and triangulate some support brackets to attach to the screen sides, then I can lower the screen as low as I want , and have a Synergy horn as a center too.

    I also am going to modify the equipment rack. The rack will be 10' long, and cut down in height just a bit. I want to make a top shelf to go the full 10' long made kut of the same Cantera marble as our floors, but 2' deep. What I have not figured out yet is how to hookup the equipment without putting the rack 2' from the wall. I do not think casters would be appropriate...sliders? Unless I make the marble top shelf not touch the rack it will be very heavy to move too. Maybe I can split the rack into 2 5' long pieces on sliders? I was planning on using spiked feet, but this problem puts a stop to that as far as I can see. I also am not happy with the adhesion of the paint I used on the rack, and I am going to have the rack stripped, and powder painted this time. I will know more later this week as we should be starting the move on Tuesday.

    I also have a solution for the turntable being in the same room as the speakers... I am going to buy a Art box that converts RCAs to balanced. This way I can run the turntable back to the Yamaha, and use the same room tune for analog, as for the theater plus have a volume control.
     
  19. leecreek

    leecreek Senior Member

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    Why can't casters be used? I have 6 ball type on my cut down entertainment center. On my fathers stereo cabinet I put some homemade sliders the 6 floor feet it has. Slides easily on hard floors.
     
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  20. Negatron

    Negatron Moderator
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    I was thinking of stability...like when people put spikes under their speakers. I guess I can use casters if I get a solid piece of plywood for the bottom of the rack to install them to. Then I could pull the entire piece out from the wall, and climb over it to wire everything, and push it back after I am done. I think I would need to get the kind that lock, and not swivel too.
     
  21. tesseract

    tesseract Senior Admin
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    I use sliders on my rack, which sits on a hardwood floor and weighs a few hundred pounds.
     
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  22. Negatron

    Negatron Moderator
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    I Will have to dummy up a rack and see if sliders will work, if not I will havetocut the rack down a little more for casters. I like the idea of sliders better though.
     
  23. Negatron

    Negatron Moderator
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    I am thinking of enclosing the rack with black Cantera marble on the top of the enclosure, and sliding the racks into the enclosure. I would then attach some doors to the front with metal grills painted white to match the faux white enclosure, and white grill cloth behind the metal grills.
    I was thinking of using tiles 24"x24" (rack is 20" deep), and having the tiles cut down to 20 for depth. I would then get some perforated metal (painted black)10' long to attach to the rear of the rack on the enclosure top. Then get something to suck the air out of the enclosure.

    What do you think?
    Suggestions?
     
  24. chrapladm

    chrapladm Moderator
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    Sounds good. An exhaust fan for a rack could work or a rack mount fan could work also for your cabinet. I have been trying to find perforated metal myself for my speaker grilles.
     
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  25. Negatron

    Negatron Moderator
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    I rearranged the rack, and I think I will leave it this way with just the wood shelves... no stone top. I still need to work on the wires on the side to conceal them. I do not know why when I look at the rack all the shelves are even, but when I take a picture a couple are out of wack. As you can see I have my Xilica xp4080 sitting in the rack (Not hooked up yet as I want to wait until the synergy horns are up and running.) 20190514_153351.jpg
     

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