Delay with the umik -1

torsten1988

Registered
Thread Starter
Joined
Dec 27, 2020
Messages
10
Hi first of al I measured before with a interface and a xlr mic. And if I wanted to know the delay from subs to mid kick Hoorn etc.. I first calobrated the Soundcraft, went measure filled in delay with loopbaan en set the hz and stuff and then I get a grafiek and in the tap there was a delay which I worked with to put the soundsystem inline, now I bought a umik 1 To make life easier but for delay you can’t check the boxes only the using acoustical time reference but how to get delay from sub I meen that first bleep Is like a high freq that isn’t coming out of sub how to dicht! can u measure sub delay with aucouticsk or not because all the benefits are bit gone for me..

Thnx
 

John Mulcahy

REW Author
Joined
Apr 3, 2017
Messages
7,212
To use the acoustic timing reference a speaker with a tweeter is used as the reference, it can be on a different channel to the measurement output.
 

torsten1988

Registered
Thread Starter
Joined
Dec 27, 2020
Messages
10
To use the acoustic timing reference a speaker with a tweeter is used as the reference, it can be on a different channel to the measurement output.

So u can put a speaker on top of an sub and use acoustical time ref from te speaker above the sub to get delay from the subwoofer or? Sound a bit strange in my head because I should think the ref acoustical timing should be come from the speaker u want to know delay from? Or is me crazzzzy hah
 

torsten1988

Registered
Thread Starter
Joined
Dec 27, 2020
Messages
10
I have soundsystem 5 way, so I put speaker extra on top to get the acoustical signaal from and then measure sub kick mid top and it should be in the right delay then:)?
 

John Mulcahy

REW Author
Joined
Apr 3, 2017
Messages
7,212
Delays have to be relative to something. A timing reference from your sub wouldn't be useful, relative to itself your sub doesn't have any delay. You need to pick a driver as the reference, such as the top - it has to be capable of reproducing a 5 kHz - 20 kHz sweep (the timing reference signal). You can then measure other drivers or the sub and see their delay relative to that reference.
 

torsten1988

Registered
Thread Starter
Joined
Dec 27, 2020
Messages
10
So if I put a Hoorn ontop that produce the 5…20000.. that’s t he reference so if I measure sub and it’s 28ms and then I measure mid and it’s 18, the delay has to be 10ms on the mid?
 

John Mulcahy

REW Author
Joined
Apr 3, 2017
Messages
7,212
Yes, and 28 ms for the top. Note, however, that delay figures for subwoofers are not necessarily the most reliable, the alignment tool may give better results.
 

torsten1988

Registered
Thread Starter
Joined
Dec 27, 2020
Messages
10
Yes, and 28 ms for the top. Note, however, that delay figures for subwoofers are not necessarily the most reliable, the alignment tool may give better results.
So u use top as acoustic reference I get it now but I measured before with a audio interface and it gives different delays they are like 8ms to 19ms different than acoustic delay, but u say the allotment tool. Works beter? Is there a easy faq for this alignment tool?
 

ddude003

AV Addict
Joined
Aug 13, 2017
Messages
1,403
Location
Somewhere Northeast of Kansas City Missouri
More  
Preamp, Processor or Receiver
PrimaLuna Dialogue Premium TubePre (2 channel+sub)
Main Amp
McIntosh MC152 SS Amp (2 channel)
Additional Amp
Yamaha RX-A850 Pro (the other 5 channels lol)
Computer Audio
MacBook Pro, Custom i7 7700k De-lid 2xAsus1080ti GFX Audirvana Studio, Hang Loose Convolver, Pulsar Massive & 8200, LiquidSonics, SoX
DAC
Chord Electronics Ltd. Qutest
Universal / Blu-ray / CD Player
Sony UBP-X700 /M Ultra HD 4K HDR & PS5
Front Speakers
Martin Logan ElectroMotion ESL
Center Channel Speaker
Martin Logan Motion C2
Surround Speakers
Martin Logan Motion 4
Surround Back Speakers
Martin Logan Motion 4 (yes, another set of these)
Subwoofers
Martin Logan Dynamo 700
Other Speakers or Equipment
Cifte 12AU7 NOS & Genalex Gold Lion Tubes in Pre
Video Display Device
Samsung The Premiere LSP7T UST Laser Projector
Screen
Elite Screens Aeon CLR3 0.8 Gain 103-inch
Remote Control
PrimaLuna, Lumin iApp, Samsung & Yamaha
Streaming Equipment
Netgear Nighthawk S8000 Streaming Switch, Lumin U1 Mini Streamer Transport
Streaming Subscriptions
QoBuz Studio Premier, Amazon Prime & Netflix
Other Equipment
ThrowRug, SaddleBlankets, WideBand & Bass Traps...

John Mulcahy

REW Author
Joined
Apr 3, 2017
Messages
7,212
Precision is not the same as accuracy. Subwoofer responses are slow, which makes accurate detection of where they start and where they peak less reliable. The more important factor for a subwoofer is its phase match to the driver it is transitioning to through its crossover region. The alignment tool shows that, has tools to automate finding the delay that gives a good phase match and shows the resulting SPL sum.
 

torsten1988

Registered
Thread Starter
Joined
Dec 27, 2020
Messages
10
Precision is not the same as accuracy. Subwoofer responses are slow, which makes accurate detection of where they start and where they peak less reliable. The more important factor for a subwoofer is its phase match to the driver it is transitioning to through its crossover region. The alignment tool shows that, has tools to automate finding the delay that gives a good phase match and shows the resulting SPL sum.
Thnx for all the reply’s I really want to get the best of my soundsystem which contains 9 paraflex c2e 2x15. 3 jbl 4530 and paraflex 3 way cabinets how is it best to measure like those para goes from 27till88 got the scoops from around 55-85 till 135-225 so just measure full 27till 88and 55 till 225? And then use alignment tool or is it beter just to measure the region they both cover like 55 till88? And than use alligment tool?
 

st0nehead_ss

New Member
Joined
Sep 20, 2022
Messages
25
More  
Preamp, Processor or Receiver
Powersoft x8
Main Amp
Powersoft x8
It’s quiete difficult I see now, but thanks for the help
let me know how you get on with this? i have 4 super scoopers, 4 es18bph kicks and 2x 2x12"+HF paraflex, and am also having trouble with the alignment. firstly used umik and acoustic timing delay going to a fullrange monitor speaker (assume this should be in line with the rest of the stack, not closer to the mic or anything??) then yesterday tried with loopback, had no luck, so will probably go the acoustic timing reference again and use the umik as i can get cleaner readings with that...
 

John Mulcahy

REW Author
Joined
Apr 3, 2017
Messages
7,212
There's an impulse mode in the alignment tool now that may be easier to use than phase alignment.
 

st0nehead_ss

New Member
Joined
Sep 20, 2022
Messages
25
More  
Preamp, Processor or Receiver
Powersoft x8
Main Amp
Powersoft x8
There's an impulse mode in the alignment tool now that may be easier to use than phase alignment.
john, yesterday we tried with the behringer measurement mic and the IR graph looked nothing like it should, it was a very dense graph of waves with a curve drawn over the top. we were outside in the blazing sun and got very frustrated trying to see and find the way to show it how it should be, and it may have been a calibration issue as had to borrow a focusrite interface, and the behringer mic was new.
 

st0nehead_ss

New Member
Joined
Sep 20, 2022
Messages
25
More  
Preamp, Processor or Receiver
Powersoft x8
Main Amp
Powersoft x8
i'll drag it out of the laptop later and attach it here
 
Top Bottom