Onkyo RZ50 Owners thread

My first time using dirac. Were the sliders adjustable before that update? I updated my Integra on initial setup to that version.

symphara said:

This manual suggests to me that you need to measure each speaker in all the mike positions before moving on to the next speaker. Is this so? Seems cumbersome.

Normally measurements are done for all speakers in a given mike position. At least that's the case for Audyssey, ARC, YPAO.

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I just received my Onkyo Tx-RZ50 today from AVSCIENCE that I had pre-ordered I suppose sometime in early summer. Ended up being a great deal as I was only charged $1,025 total when they're listed on Crutchfield for $1,399 before tax! They are also "temporarily sold out" last I checked. Anyway, I'm excited to try it out and wanted to ask about the Dirac sound measurement software that comes with this unit. I've never used sound measurement other than using the small mic that came with a previous receiver. What is the minimum equipment such as Umic-1(or cheaper version if possible), speaker stand, etc. that I would need to calibrate my speaker set?

SpeckNI said:

I just received my Onkyo Tx-RZ50 today from AVSCIENCE that I had pre-ordered I suppose sometime in early summer. Ended up being a great deal as I was only charged $1,025 total when they're listed on Crutchfield for $1,399 before tax! They are also "temporarily sold out" last I checked. Anyway, I'm excited to try it out and wanted to ask about the Dirac sound measurement software that comes with this unit. I've never used sound measurement other than using the small mic that came with a previous receiver. What is the minimum equipment such as Umic-1(or cheaper version if possible), speaker stand, etc. that I would need to calibrate my speaker set?

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Great deal
The simplest approach is to use the Onkyo supplied mic and the Onkyo Controller which includes a friendly and easy-to-use Dirac Live calibration.

Later on, you may evaluate downloading the Dirac Live desktop calibration tool... first link here: https://www.dirac.com/live/downloads/
and eventually a UMIK-1 measurement microphone: https://www.minidsp.com/products/acoustic-measurement/umik-1

The desktop Dirac Live allows loading ready-made target curves and this is useful as the default target curve might sound bass shy (our perception of bass depends on the listening volume)
In that case, I'd suggest that you try the Harman target curves with different bass boosts: https://youthmanreviews.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/09/Harman-Target-Curves.zip

Flak said:

Great deal
The simplest approach is to use the Onkyo supplied mic and the Onkyo Controller which includes a friendly and easy-to-use Dirac Live calibration.

Later on, you may evaluate downloading the Dirac Live desktop calibration tool... first link here: https://www.dirac.com/live/downloads/
and eventually a UMIK-1 measurement microphone: https://www.minidsp.com/products/acoustic-measurement/umik-1

The desktop Dirac Live allows loading ready-made target curves and this is useful as the default target curve might sound bass shy (our perception of bass depends on the listening volume)
In that case, I'd suggest that you try the Harman target curves with different bass boosts: https://youthmanreviews.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/09/Harman-Target-Curves.zip

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Very good, thanks so much for the reply and good information!!

Flak said:

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That’s fantastic! I’m excited to see the RZ70 and RZ90. I’m curious what the new Dirac feature is and if it will work with this or those

"...like searching for the Bigfoot"
from here: https://h-m-entertainment.com/onkyo-tx-rz50-review

Finally got ship notification from Crutchfield on my Onkyo RZ50 that I ordered back in Sept. Almost here!

Flak said:

"...like searching for the Bigfoot"

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in Australia, it is like searching for the "Bunyip"....

Stoked for that RZ-90 or PR-90 (prepro)

I'm not expecting it to materialise this year in the flesh... - at least not in Australia...

It will (probably) get announced early in 2022 (Feb/March?)

Then early review samples and a limited first shipment will hit the USA... (and Canada if they get lucky!... but probably not)
probably May/June?

sometime like September/October - it starts to be in stock online and in retail - USA only

If we are really lucky, we start seeing stock in Aus & Europe in November/December... or early 2023

So let's not hold our collective breaths...

I'm working on a 5.1.2 setup with the RZ50 and had two questions:

• I read in the Dirac Live thread in the AVS Forum that Dirac did not support ceiling firing Atmos speakers. However, when I specified ceiling firing front speakers in the Onkyo and then did a Dirac calibration it went through ok. I compared the results with the no room correction (Dirac completely off) and the Dirac adjustment did seem a little harsh with Atmos effects.
• I then did an AccuEQ configuration to see if that would handle the ceiling firing speakers better since I read that Onkyo's AccuReflex technology specifically does support ceiling firing speakers. And...to my surprise it sounded like the Dirac calibration. Maybe that plane going over the Mustang unveiling in Ford vs Ferrari is supposed to be that harsh. I wanted to flip back and forth between no room correction, AccuEQ, and Dirac but it looks like if you have Dirac enabled you can't use AccuEQ, and also vice versa. Is that correct? Does anyone know how to backup AccuEQ setups so they don't get wiped out each time I switch speaker configurations? (I'm testing to see if the ceiling firing speakers are really worth it. I'm so thankful I can reload settings from my laptop with Dirac)

Thanks for any tips!

Dirac did specifically say that they don't support the reflecting Atmos speakers - due to inconsistent results - too many variables possible with the reflected sound, so the system frequently (as in, on many setups) gets distances / timing wrong (and perhaps other parameters?).

So the answer is (I think) - try your luck... but don't depend on it.

New question: I was really hoping to connect my Bluetooth headphones to the receiver, and although I was able to connect them it appears that they only pass through sound when either the Tuner or NET source is selected (page 82 in the online manual). Really?! I don't someone here figured out a way to get other sources to pass through sound?

greendog2017 said:

I'm working on a 5.1.2 setup with the RZ50 and had two questions:

• I read in the Dirac Live thread in the AVS Forum that Dirac did not support ceiling firing Atmos speakers. However, when I specified ceiling firing front speakers in the Onkyo and then did a Dirac calibration it went through ok. I compared the results with the no room correction (Dirac completely off) and the Dirac adjustment did seem a little harsh with Atmos effects.
• I then did an AccuEQ configuration to see if that would handle the ceiling firing speakers better since I read that Onkyo's AccuReflex technology specifically does support ceiling firing speakers. And...to my surprise it sounded like the Dirac calibration.

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Your findings don't come unexpectedly...you can use Dirac Live with ceiling-firing Atmos speakers with no problems.
Tens of thousands of AVRs have been delivered and we never received a complaint about an audible issue even if a small timing error might (eventually) occur on a height speaker.

Owners of supported AVRs (i.e. Onkyo RZ50) can now beta test our completely new mobile apps introducing an auto-target curve that calculates a suggested target specific for each system, and a simplified way to change the target, should that still be desired or required:

Flak said:

Your findings don't come unexpectedly...you can use Dirac Live with ceiling-firing Atmos speakers with no problems.
Tens of thousands of AVRs have been delivered and we never received a complaint about an audible issue even if a small timing error might (eventually) occur on a height speaker.

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Thanks so much for confirming that Flak! Sometimes you just need that reassurance .

Technical review and discussion at ASR:

Notes on the ASR review:

Good Pre-Pro capabilities (not state-of-the-art, but good)

Tendency to protect itself by going into a nanny mode of the power amps, which drops power to 1/3rd... (40W instead of 120W) - but this requires 4 ohm loads under continuous test to trigger - very few real life reports of such issues.

Reasonably efficient speakers, even 4 ohm ones, shouldn't have an issue.
Speakers dropping well below 4 ohm - exercise caution, also inefficient speakers.

If you are someone with inefficient speakers or hard to drive speakers - best to run L/C/R with external amps.

For anyone that has ordered one since January or so in Canada, don't expect one anytime soon. I spoke with my salesman and he shared an email from Gentec International. (Onkyo Canadian Distributor) The units were not shipped from Malaysia as expected. They supposedly left the factory February 20th and are not expected in Canada to re-sell until mid-April. I had originally been told in January that my unit would be available to pick up February 14th. I've never waited this long for anything. LOL

Good news for Australian pre-orders.... I just received word that my Integra DRX 3.4, would be dispatched from the warehouse tomorrow...

Not counting any chickens before their hatched... but... apparently stock has indeed arrived in Australia, at least for Integra, although still no sign of Onkyo or Pioneer.

Review of the Integra DRX 3.4

Just received my Integra DRX 3.4 yesterday (Onkyo NR7100 with preouts added) ...

Did a cursory listening with the internal amps, compared to my old Onkyo TX-SR876... sounded OK, but not as good as the old beast (140W/ch rated... 50kg...) - all without Dirac activated.

Then mounted up my power amps (Crown XLS2500 x2 for L/R C is still on internal amps) - that took the sound up a notch... my speakers need a lot more "oomph" than the current AVR series can dish up...

Then I did a quick Dirac RoomEQ - now the sound was definitely better than the old system with Audyssey - the midrange is sounding much better - more detail coming through - voices / dialogue is clearer...

Not convinced about the Bass EQ ... the sound is a bit "plummy" - perhaps too much mid bass - I will be installing the DIRAC PC App, and retuning using that later today (time permitting!) - then I can investigate, and tune...

Right now, I can confidently say that this US$1000 AVR, is outperforming my old flagship AVR's (Onkyo TX-SR876, Integra DTR 70.4)... in use as primarily a pre-pro.... (which is how I used the previous generation ones too... although with their big amps, they did OK on their own - but still the setup sounded better with external amps for L/C/R)

I opted for the Integra, as I did not expect that the RZ50/5.4/LX505 would have sufficient power to replace my external amps (given that the substantially more powerful AVR's I had were still not enough!) - and my current setup is 5.1, which I hope to extend to 5.1.4.... and this will tide me over until the RZ70/90 flagships come out, with potential new DIRAC features as well as Auro3D and more. (and of course the Integra version has the full pre outs... which the NR7100 & LX305 don't)

So - having ordered my Integra 3.4 AVR in September 2021, it finally arrived on Monday....

I am glad I waited.

So here is the slightly longer review...

My System :

Speakers
Front L/R Gallo Reference 3.1
C Gallo Reference AV Center
Surround L/R PSB Alpha Intro
Sub Gallo TR2
TV Sony X90H

Current AVR being replaced
Onkyo TX-SR876 (2008, 30kg, 140W/ch beast - Audyssey XT) - no HDMI inputs (burnt out) - SPDIF
also Integra DTR 70.4, same amp as 876 (same weight too!), let out its magic smoke recently - Audyssey XT32 - both of these sounded best without Audyssey - run straight. - although for Movies I often activated Audyssey so I could listen late at night using the Dynamic EQ function. (Loudness)

Power amps 2x Crown XLS2500 - not connected in a while, have been running the 876 the last 6 months since the 70.4 failed... the Crowns are intended to be configured with their onboard crossover to BiAmp the Front L/R.

Box arrived and was unpacked - nicely built unit, looks a lot like the old 70.4, but weighs half as much... the lightness is not promising from a class AB amp perspective! it is both shorter in height and depth, than the old ones (possibly a good thing... they are/were huge!)
I can easily pop the new unit into the rack, not much effort - taking the old beast out on the other hand requires great care, and is easiest with 2 people - it is HEAVY.

For starters I just plugged in the 3.4 on its own, simply replacing the 876, and feeding it via HDMI.

I had a brief listen... 10 to 15min - definite lack of body, it sounds a bit coarser perhaps in the mids and highs - hard to tell... but definitely not as good as the 876 (both were being run with no RoomEQ) .
Rerun speaker cables, set up for Biamping - connect up the 2 x Crowns, set up their onboard crossovers to 125Hz, and set their gain to around 75%
Manually set levels for all speakers....

First listen of the Integra DRX 3.4 with the Crowns - setup as planned...

Ahh that's definitely better ... in fact it is very good, better than the 876 on its own (I think?)- hard to tell, but at least in the same ballpark - it is sounding good.

Hmm OK, lets try Dirac.... - first run using only the AVR on its own.... quick set of measurements and a listen.... - ooh this is sound good....
Midrange and mid-highs are definitely clearer - tried a couple of movie clips - vocals / dialogue is much much clearer - this is far better than Audyssey (at least in my setup).
Downsides... the bass is sounding a bit "plummy" - sounds like a mid bass boost... need to try a more thorough measurement and analysis - and that's what the Dirac PC app is well suited to.

Did a bit of viewing that evening - was great watching Peaky Binders on Netflix... definitely an upgrade from my previous setup - and most of the improvement seems directly due to Dirac - definitely feeling vindicated about my wait for the Dirac Based Onkyo/Integra unit....
Let's see if I can resolve that bass issue.

Next day - I ran up the Dirac PC app on my laptop - still using the Puck MIC connected to the AVR for measurements - Puck is attached to my old camera tripod.
I ran the full 17 point Dirac measurement across our 3 seater couch.

Then I brought up the resulting measurements - loaded a Harman +4db target curve, and adjusted it a little by applying a slight rolloff at the high end - adjusted some of the curtains (up for the surrounds, down for bass on the fronts)

Initial listening response: - fantastic - the plumminess is gone! (so I must have measured wrong the day before) - system is sounding better than it ever has - better detail, smooth, deep base - soundstage....

Looking forward to further listening over coming weeks - my initial response is that YES, Dirac is a game changer - dramatic improvement from Audyssey.

The AVR on its own is too underpowered for my speakers - but that was expected - they can be a difficult load, and that would not apply to many setups/speakers.

But the AVR is an excellent prepro, based on my listening - and its internal amps are more than adequate to run a pair of surrounds and the center....

When I have the time, I will try to set up some height speakers....

For those on the fence - I would suggest hanging on for the Dirac AVR's rather than succumbing to the lure of Audyssey....