Negatron II

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Leonard Caillouet

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Don't get me wrong, horns are awesome, but not trivial to design and build. People have spent years trying to get them right. I would defer to someone who has more experience on them but I am not sure who that would be.
 

NBPK402

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Don't get me wrong, horns are awesome, but not trivial to design and build. People have spent years trying to get them right. I would defer to someone who has more experience on them but I am not sure who that would be.

I hear ya...that is why my system will be entirely horn loaded except for my Atmos channels... IB would have been the one lyrics way I would defer from horns. We will see how this HT turns out as it will most likely be my final statement in building one .
 
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Leonard Caillouet

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Danley seems to have the horn thing figured out. It would probably be hard to top what they do. But just curious, do you really need 2 more DTS10s.
 

NBPK402

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My room will be quite a bit larger... I could get away with 2 if I put one on each side of the room I think, with them facing the rows. I also could go with a larger amp...as I only have 700wpc, and they recommend 2000wpc. The only time I ever thought there was a problem was with the Tom Cruise intro to the movie where he dies over and over, and to be honest my front row was in a null. The back row was right over the sub, and it rocked. The front to sub was 12' in front of the front to row which was right in the middle between the front to and rear subs.
 

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Maybe both subs would be better on a sub floor firing directly between the 2 rows would really rock. I will have to do a sub crawl with the new HT, and measure this time. The only problem will be the floor will be concrete, and that will make running wires more difficult if the subs are in the middle of the room.
 
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OJ Bartley

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I don't think I've ever seen a brick ceiling before! I'll admit that vaulted brick one you liked is gorgeous, but I would still be worried about losing a brick on someone's head one day.

That amp project looks really cool, what a great idea. Any more info/progress on that?
 

NBPK402

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The original house Plan fell through. We should be moving down in August, and then we will start looking again for a house or a lot to build a new house on. It will most likely be a while before we have a new prospect for a Home Theater. I am hoping by next summer to be working on the new theater. I will keep posting up as time goes on, and I also need to build the new speakers for the new theater too. The new amp is ready to be wired, and hopefully we will have it tested with the one Synergy horn we built in the next few weeks.
 
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OJ Bartley

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Sorry to hear that Negatron! i hope you find something even better than that location when you do get down there.
 

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Well we are now living in San Miguel de Allende Mexico in a temporary house until we either buy or build one. My projects are now starting. I now have the 14 channel amp up and running, but it will be torn back apart when the 5 or 7 k402 clone Synergy horns are built.The amps will be moved inside of each speaker along with a minidsp 2x4 (this is why I was asking about a processor with HDMI input, and fiber or analog outputs). The first item I have started on is our home entertainment rack for our living room. I have one rack in place so far, but I am still waiting on some 1' long 2" x 2", and 3"x 3" aluminum angle for supporting the shelves. The shelves are 20"×20", and were made from 2" thick Mesquite wood. I still need to make one more, and then add a few shelves connecting the 2 racks. This should be completed by the time we get going on the Synergy speakers. A friend of mine wants my help in building a CNC machine that can do 5'×10' pieces. This will be built in about 6 months from now, and then we will make the horn mold for the speakers. We will use the CNC Machine to make the cabinets, horn driver, and woofer mounts. Hopefully this will coincide with moving into our own new home. I am debating on also making some small synergy horns for our living room too.
 

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Congrats on the move! Liking it?

Great looking rack! Can't wait to follow along on your projects!:T
 

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We are loving it here...my wife calls it Adult Disneyland! Hot air balloons fly over every morning, concerts nightly, great food fkr cheap, and friendly people.As an example the small community we live in outside of San Miguel celebrated Easter, and around 1000 people showed up for a parade, and concerts that started at 130pm...we left at 1am, and it was still going strong. It was free, except for food, drink, and merchandise with the proceeds going to the local church.No inflated prices either.
 

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Awesome! Really glad to know its been a positive experience. Sounds great!

Are either of you from the area?
 

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Nope...my wife made some friends when she partnered up with Team Mexico a few years ago at a Dog competiton years ago in Denver.When we were thinking of moving she contacted them, and now she is a member of Team Mexico. We have so many friends here now...Mexicans, and Xpats.
 

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Here is an update on my equipment rack. I built it from my old projection screen frame, which was made of 8020 extruded aluminum. It will be 2 racks separated by a 6' piece of extruded aluminum, and will support our 4k FP.

I personally like the new rack which only has 2 uprights over having 3 uprights...what do you think?

I hope to be able to start on 7 DIY klipsch
K402 clone horns modded to synergy style horns this fall. I can not wait to have 7 bi-amped horns in my theater.
 

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NBPK402

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I have the 2nd rack started now(should be done this week), and I decided on a little improvement mod. What I did was instead of just having 2 screws hold each bracket to the frame.... I went to 6 or 8 screws holding each bracket. It was strong before, but now it is even better. I also ordered some plans for horns for our living room. I am building the Inlow paper mache horns, and I will also be building some bass bins for the living room too. Inlow is working on a design for a bass horn for me that uses 2 18" JBL woofers... If I like it then that is what my living room stereo setup will have. I will at a later date start on some surround speakers. The living room with these horns will not be conducive to a center channel due to the tv in between the 2 racks, with a sub, and computer under the tv.

Once the living room is done, my friend should be back to help me mold the 7 horns for the theater.
 

NBPK402

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Update... we will not be building the paper mache horns...only the synergy horns , and subs.

Well today we put an offer on a house, and it was accepted...My wife, and I both fell in love with this house as soon as we stepped in The front gate.The house is 8 or 9 years old. The first picture is our entrance, the next 2 are the kitchen living, and dining room, with the 4th pic being the wine cellar.

The living , dining room bar is 31'from the rear wall with the doors, and windows. The room is about 19' wide with a boveda ceiling that hits 31' high. I anticipate mounting the projector under the loft right over the kitchen bar. We will be going with 5 or 7 K402 Synergy horns, and then covering the JBL surround speakers in white acoustically transparent material so they blend in with the walls. I have already ordered $600 of roxul Rockboard for my acoustic panels, and my wife said we can do artwork coveri vs on them to make the room look nice. The corner traps will be white only I think, and we will get some nice curtains for the back wall. I will work on a 200" 2.40 AT screen that will drop down. We will be disguising our speakers, and all the equipment will be in another room. I will be dismantling my 14 channel amp, and converting to a balanced setup with the amp modules, znd minidsps 2x4s on/in each speaker. I also plan on using my Insteon wall outlets to power each speaker individually. The plan is to be able to power on only 2 speakers if we want stereo, and 7 if we want surround, and all amps if we want Atmos.

I can't wait to start on this room setup. We are currently in a lease till the end of the year so we might rent the house out to vacationers u til our lease is almost done, and then start moving stuff over. I hope to have the speakers done by the end of of the year, which would also get us to the end of the lease. I will post up pics as we move along.
 

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Prof.

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WOW!!..Nice place!! Love the fireplace..:T
 

NBPK402

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What would be a nice way to conceal the synergy speakers...
1: Build individual cabinets with doors you open when you listen.
2: Drape acoustically transparent cloth over them.

My wife and I was thinking of putting a large heavy vase over each too. We do not want everyone who walks in to see the speakers, and by covering them we could make it look lime they are pedestals for vases.
 

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Today I ordered my XLR cables for the front channels...3 75' white cables to help conceal them. Once we move in I will start figuring out exactly where to put everything. For a start we will only have 2 front channel speakers, 65" FP, and the turntable (once I find a nice 2 channel preamp it will be hooked up).I am hoping to find a nice 2 channel preamp with a nice phone stage used for no too much money.I will post up more pics as it progresses. I also have Roxul Rockboard coming from the USA for my wall treatments.
 

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Well the buyers of our home just signed so we are def getting this house...we should be moving into our new home in the next couple of weeks. I have a dilema now, where do I n the screen?

When you look at the pictures the distance from the windows to the loft is 20', the room is 19` wide, and if you go from the windows to the bar it is 30`.

Option 1: I was thinking I could mount a 160" 2.4 electric AT screen from the loft, and put the 3 front speakers behind the screen. If I go that way the kitchen would be viewable from the living room when the screen was up.

Option 2: Build a support to hang the screen from about 3` from the windows, and put the speakers behind the screen.

Option 3: Hang the screen from the wall across from the screen...downside is it would have to be mounted to the wall and the screen would only go down to 3` from the floor due to the speakers.


Ideas, suggestions?
 

Matthew J Poes

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I think i would go with option 2 if I can picture this right.

IF you could provide pics that would help.

Sounds like this is not light controlled. Is that right? If so, you may want to consider a screen that works better with that environment like ALR.

https://www.screeninnovations.com/materials/slate-at/
This is my favorite option for that purpose. If you don’t need AT I would use their Blackdiamond. I used the .8 Blackdiamond 2 for nearly ten years and loved it.
 

NBPK402

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We will be be using room darkening curtains, barn door sliders for the side hallways, and also curtains on other windows...so it should be pretty dark. I will get some more pics when we move in.
 

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I think i would go with option 2 if I can picture this right.

IF you could provide pics that would help.

Sounds like this is not light controlled. Is that right? If so, you may want to consider a screen that works better with that environment like ALR.

https://www.screeninnovations.com/materials/slate-at/
This is my favorite option for that purpose. If you don’t need AT I would use their Blackdiamond. I used the .8 Blackdiamond 2 for nearly ten years and loved it.
I need to use an AT screen as we will be making 3 large Klipsch k402 synergy style horns for the front 3 channels, and possibly 2 for surrounds too.
 

Matthew J Poes

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The ALR screen I linked to is AT. It's an option. It isn't as cheap as DIY options or even many other AT options, but it's one of two ALR AT screens I'm aware of and is the better of the two options.

It's up to you how you handle this. My own experience is that light control or an ALR screen is very important if you plan to watch movies during a time when it is light out. Most of my "theaters" were in dual purpose or non-dedicated spaces with windows. I had light control curtains with full blackout ability, but no matter what, some light always shined somewhere. The ceiling, floor, etc. Never could I black it out to the point of equaling no window at all. Even at night, light outside, even from the moon, was enough to raise the light level in the room a little. This reflects off the screen and raises the black floor a lot. In fact, I just did a demo in my dedicated room and needed to leave the door open (which would be the only way light could get in) and the impact on the black level of my AT screen was huge.

In my previous spaces, I tried everything and the only thing that worked was an ALR screen. Even a dark grey screen with a high brightness projector was not a workable option. This is why I say, you may want to consider an ALR AT screen. In fact, at one point I had some friends bring over their projectors to my then home theater space, a room with white walls and two screens. A unity gain white screen and an SI Black Diamond (one rolled in front of the other). The projects were my JVC RS1, a JVC RS25, an Epson 5010ub, and a Panasonic DLP model with DCI cinema mode, capable of around 10,000 optimized lumens. We tested at both 4pm when it was fairly light outside and again at 8 pm when it was dark outside (other than street lights, moon, stars, etc.). At 4 pm the Panasonic looked the best, it was most able to overcome the ambient light problems (again, with full light blocking curtains on all windows). The Epson was second best, it was the next brightest. It technically had the worst blacks, but both it and the Panasonic looked to have better blacks. None of them looked great, poor contrast with the white screen, but they all looked really impressive on the SI Black diamond. At 8 pm I expected the JVC RS25 to be the clear winner and on the unity white screen. What we found was not what we expected. While it clearly had the best contrast, none of them looked great on the unity gain screen because the light coming in the room (though very low) from outside and the reflections off the white walls were raising the black floor substantially. The Black Diamond looked the best because it was least affected by this. I kept the Black Diamond screen for years after with my JVC RS1. When I moved to the dedicated theater, I bought AT fabric and converted the black diamond, but I had a chance to compare both side-by-side for curiosity sake. In a truly light controlled room with very dark navy walls and no windows, doors shut, and no sources of light in the room, they looked nearly identical. The Black Diamond's reflective properties are different and it's a dark grey color so its blacks were still a little darker and it's whites less white (and it had a slight sparkle that the new SI screens have minimized quite a bit). Point is, in a truly light controlled room, the differences became minor, if anything, more just a difference in gain (the SI BD was darker).

So I concluded from all of this that really when it comes to projectors, light controlled means a black room with zero sources of ambient light at all. That anything else isn't really good enough in the sense that these non-dedicated spaces with light walls and windows will always compromise the black level a little bit. That this can be compensated for by using an ALR screen, and that it's even of benefit at night. If you do go with an AT screen that is not ALR in a space like this, the rise in black levels negates the benefits of the best projectors and you may want to consider a merely very good projector, in black levels, with a lot more brightness.

https://www.projectorpeople.com/scr...anu=Screen+Innovations&itmname=5+Series+Fixed
Here is a site with pricing to give you an idea what you are looking at.

What projector do you have in mind?
 
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